dear celine, thank you very much for your valuable help on the matter. ciao, stefano On 22 February 2017 at 18:38, <celine.fontaine at orange.com> wrote: > Dear Stefano, > > > > I hope that you are well. > > > > We have considered the remaining issue related to the open source > provision article 4.2.7.2. > > > > We propose a modification of your wording. Please see the document > attached. > > > > Even though it is not perfect (assuming that you are well aware that we do > not support the idea of a public statement), we propose this modification > as we think that “linking” a software with a Fiware component under a > controlled license could not be an aggregate (for instance in case of the > GNU GPL license or the GNU Affero License), and therefore should be > confusing for a potential user. We want that the public statement that you > want to have should be simpler as possible and be understood by a potential > user. > > > > We want to be cautious about the fact that this interaction should not be > considered as a derivative work. > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > [image: Orange logo] <http://www.orange.com/> > > > > *Céline Fontaine * > Legal Counsel IP > ORANGE/SG/DJ/SIP/IP > > > > phone: +33 1 57 39 62 39 > <https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=http%3A%2F%2Fclicvoice.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do%3Faction%3Ddefault%26rootservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D+33%201%2045%2029%2062%2039> > celine.fontaine at orange.com > > > > *De :* Stefano De Panfilis [mailto:stefano.depanfilis at fiware.org] > *Envoyé :* jeudi 16 février 2017 19:47 > > *À :* SARRAZIN Robert SG/DJ > *Cc :* fi-next at lists.fiware.org; Maria Luisa Porro; FONTAINE Céline > SG/DJ; PRIVAT Gilles IMT/OLPS > *Objet :* Re: fi-next ca version 14.02.207 > > > > dear robert, > > > > indeed, it was my mistake not to add the new text for article 4.2.7.2. in > the first version of the ca, but as soon as somebody reminded that to me i > immediately put it in. > > apologise for the inconvenience. > > > > please as soons as your open source expert colleague will be back from the > holidays address he/her really asap, becouse the signature progress cannot > proceed as well as the distribution of funding. indeed, the requireent from > my management is not to distribute any single euro before the ca is at > least agreed by all (in principle they would like to have it duly signed by > all...). > > > > can you tell us when you think you'll come back to us? > > > > i'm sure you very well understand the urgency, but also the priority i'm > giving you. > > > > ciao, > > stefano > > > > > > > > On 16 February 2017 at 11:58, <robert.sarrazin at orange.com> wrote: > > Dear Stefano, > > > > Thank you for your explanations. > > > > I was not aware that a dedicated team worked on this issue, to suggest > the new wording you propose for Article 4.2.7.2. I have only noticed that > such a wording has been proposed almost at the end of CA negotiations for > the Fi next Project . > > > > As you know, we do not support the idea of a public statement which can be > not compliant with the applicable license terms of an open source license > chosen by a contributor. > > You are right when you say that some of the “controlled licences “ are a > bit ambiguous but we cannot re-write the text of such licenses. In any case > the terms of such licenses remain applicable, when chosen by a given > contributor. > > > > Having said that I intend to further examine this matter with our open > source expert ( which is currently out of office until next week ) to > consider if possible alternative solutions are workable . > > > > Best regards > > > > *De :* Stefano De Panfilis [mailto:stefano.depanfilis at fiware.org] > *Envoyé :* jeudi 16 février 2017 06:26 > > > *À :* SARRAZIN Robert SG/DJ > *Cc :* fi-next at lists.fiware.org; Maria Luisa Porro; FONTAINE Céline > SG/DJ; PRIVAT Gilles IMT/OLPS > *Objet :* Re: fi-next ca version 14.02.207 > > > > dear robert, > > > > it is true that the original statement you'd like to push back was that in > the ca of fi-core, but, and i guess you miss this information, within the > fi-core project a dedicated team open to all the beneficiaries worked for > several months and came out with the text that is now in this fi-next ca. > > > > what i wonted to remark here is that the current text is not my text out > of the blue, but is a text which come out as a collaborative work of all > (well may be only the interested) beneficiaries of fi-core. most of the > beneficiaries who participated in such collaborative effort were supported > by their attorneis. > > > > now i do not remember if orange participated in that dedicated team and if > so the person there was supported by a legal expert, still the text in the > current ca comes from many months of effort as a collaborative work. > > > > the goal of that team was to guarantee the maximum adoption of the fiware > technologies. as you well know all of those technologies offer rest apis to > be used to use such software in new applications. this is perfectly in line > with all the major oss communities which offer software through the cloud > as fiware does. > > > > as you well know, some of the controlled licences are a bit ambiguous on > what they consider derivative work. we as fiware cannot accept that the > simple usage of unmodifed software through the apis it offers is considered > a derivative work. if this is the case all the key concept of fiware, > including for instance fiware lab, become meaningless. this is exactly what > we do not want! > > > > so the result of the decicated team was for case 3 (i.e. software produced > by a single contributor who want to use a controlled licence for its > software) to put the statement, as mongdb does, to avoid any doubt of the > interpretation of what is derivative work and what is not. as simple as > that. > > > > if you have alternative solutions that match this requirement i'm happy to > study them, but the current formulation you suggest, i.e. the old > formulation in fi-core, does not protect fiware and its wider adoption, > even more it generates exactly the counter effect which is the death of > fiware. > > > > i'm sure you well understand these concerns and i'm far then happy to find > a good solution together with you, but which will not bring back us. > > > > ciao, > > stefano > > > > On 15 February 2017 at 17:08, <robert.sarrazin at orange.com> wrote: > > Dear Stefano, > > > > Thank you for your reply > > > > I understand the Fiware objectives and that you want somehow to manage > case 3 “. those who are the only owner and want to use controlled > licenses” but, on the other hand, I am afraid it should be difficult for > a given contributor to make a *correct *– public – statement saying: *Software > that merely uses or aggregates (i.e. links to) an otherwise unmodified > version of the <name of FIWARE GEri> product software is not considered a > derivative work”*. If such contributor use certain controlled licenses, > for the distribution of the concerned software, if such statement is not > compliant with the applicable license terms of the controlled license > chosen by such contributor . > > > > Such kind of public statement , in my opinion, does not give legal > certainty for a potential user. > > In other words I think that such public statement does not solve the > problem . > > > > I do not really see the reason why we do not use the initial wording > that you have proposed for Article 4.2.7.2 ( with slight modifications- ) > which has been already discussed for Fi Core project and which seems in > line with your objective to limit as much as possible case 3 . > > We can further examine the matter with our open source expert( which is > currently out of office until next week ) but now I cannot support the > idea of this public statement . > > > > Best regards > > > > *De :* Stefano De Panfilis [mailto:stefano.depanfilis at fiware.org] > *Envoyé :* mercredi 15 février 2017 12:41 > *À :* SARRAZIN Robert SG/DJ > *Cc :* fi-next at lists.fiware.org; Maria Luisa Porro; FONTAINE Céline > SG/DJ; PRIVAT Gilles IMT/OLPS > *Objet :* Re: fi-next ca version 14.02.207 > > > > dear robert, > > > > we have to distingush between three different cases: > > 1. the case of those who are fully compliant with fiware approach > > 2. those who use third party software which use controlled licenses > > 3. those who are the only owner and want to use controlled licenses > > > > the goal of fiware is to limit as much as possible cases 2 and 3 or at > least limits their effects. > > > > so considering that as such we cannot do anything with case 2 more then > that having the fiware technical steering committee trying to persuade the > contributor to avoid to use software released under controlled licenses, we > would want somehow to manage case 3 and this why we ask them to use the > additional text proposed. this way also the case 3 becomes fully fiware > compliant. > > > > please note that mongodb applies a very much similar approach to us ( > https://www.mongodb.com/blog/post/the-agpl), i.e. we, as them, want that > fiware users can use fiware (i.e. connect their applications to fiware) > without considering them derivative work. > > > > so, honestly, we would prefer to keep the current wording. > > > > ciao, > > stefano > > > > On 15 February 2017 at 11:55, <robert.sarrazin at orange.com> wrote: > > Dear Stefano, > > > > Thank you for this new version. > > I appreciate your efforts to propose a compromise text related to Article > 4.2.7.2 > > > > However I do not agree to state an obligation to make such a public > statement , ie an attempt to interpret ( for the public ) the applicable > license terms of an open source licence, for the reasons already explained > . > > > > Furthermore it seems inconsistent that such a public statement shall be > made by a contributor who cannot ensure that the relevant terms are met. > If such terms are not met, the concerned contributor shall thus not be in > a position to make the public statement that you propose to make. In any > case we think that such a public statement does not give legal certainty to > a potential user of a reference implementation. > > > > So I propose to go back to the initial wording proposed ( coming from a > previous project ) with slight modifications ( see attached wording ) > > > > Thank you for your understanding . > > > > Best regards > > > > *De :* Stefano De Panfilis [mailto:stefano.depanfilis at fiware.org] > *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 18:47 > *À :* fi-next at lists.fiware.org; Maria Luisa Porro; SARRAZIN Robert SG/DJ > *Objet :* fi-next ca version 14.02.207 > > > > dear all, > > > > please find attached the last version of the ca which really i'd like to > consider really final. > > actually i'll do so if i will not receive requests for modifications > within *this friday noon*. > > > > attached to this email you get two versions one clean, on which in case > you provide your missing data or requests for modifications if any, and a > version with all the changes with respect to the previous version for you > to check the modifications i made. > > > > if there are no requests for modifications, this monday we can start the > signature process and on receiving the signatures also i can instruct > engineering to forward the due pre-financing. > > > > please note i still miss data from: > > - dfki (page 4 and page 50) > > - image & reseaux (page 48) > > - upm (page 51) > > > > ciao, > > stefano > > > > -- > > *Stefano De Panfilis* > > *Chief Operating Officer * > > *FIWARE Foundation e.V.* > > > > Franklinstrasse 13A > > 10587 Berlin > > > > mob: +393357542567 <+39%20335%20754%202567> > > skype: depa01 > > twitter: depa01 > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > *Stefano De Panfilis* > > *Chief Operating Officer * > > *FIWARE Foundation e.V.* > > > > Franklinstrasse 13A > > 10587 Berlin > > > > mob: +393357542567 <+39%20335%20754%202567> > > skype: depa01 > > twitter: depa01 > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > *Stefano De Panfilis* > > *Chief Operating Officer * > > *FIWARE Foundation e.V.* > > > > Franklinstrasse 13A > > 10587 Berlin > > > > mob: +393357542567 <+39%20335%20754%202567> > > skype: depa01 > > twitter: depa01 > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > *Stefano De Panfilis* > > *Chief Operating Officer * > > *FIWARE Foundation e.V.* > > > > Franklinstrasse 13A > > 10587 Berlin > > > > mob: +393357542567 <+39%20335%20754%202567> > > skype: depa01 > > twitter: depa01 > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > -- *Stefano De Panfilis* *Chief Operating Officer * *FIWARE Foundation e.V.* Franklinstrasse 13A 10587 Berlin mob: +393357542567 skype: depa01 twitter: depa01 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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