[Fiware-legal] FI-WARE CONSORTIUM AGREEMENT

[Kamecke, Katharina]

Dear All,

Siemens agrees with Fraunhofer's statement. There is no contract within the CA which imposes obligations upon a third party. Therefore the mentioned principle is not violated.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Best regards
____________________________________
Rechtsanwältin Katharina Kamecke, LL.M.oec.
Legal Counsel
Siemens AG
Corporate Legal and Compliance
CL CS CU CT and IP
Otto-Hahn-Ring 6
81739 München, Deutschland
Tel.: +49 (89) 636-30128
Fax: +49 (89) 636-50441
Mobil: +49 (173) 9738756
mailto:katharina.kamecke at siemens.com<mailto:arne.ibbeken at siemens.com>

Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter Löscher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael Süß; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und München, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, München, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322



________________________________
Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von fabian.perpeet at zv.fraunhofer.de
Gesendet: Montag, 5. September 2011 21:21
An: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com
Cc: thierry.nagellen at orange-ftgroup.com; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu
Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE CONSORTIUM AGREEMENT

Dear Ms Schweppe,
we agree that it is not possible to conclude a legally effective contract which imposes obligations on someone not being a party to such a contract. However, this is not the case with the wording in discussion as it is at each Party's as well as at any interested third party's sole discretion if they enter into an agreement anyway. No obligations of a third party are created by the CA so it does not violate the principle mentioned by you.
Regards
Fabian Perpeet


________________________________
Von: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com]
Gesendet: Montag, 5. September 2011 14:08
An: Du Besset Mathilde; robert.sarrazin at orange-ftgroup.com; susanne.weikl at nsn.com; Bettina.Lehmann at telekom.de; Fabian Perpeet; SUZANNE at il.ibm.com
Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; thierry.nagellen at orange-ftgroup.com; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu
Betreff: AW: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE CONSORTIUM AGREEMENT

Dear all,

SAP disagrees with the wording proposed by Orange and NSN. I have checked with our Belgian lawyers and they explained to me the following:

While it is possible to conclude a contract in favor of third party beneficiaries, but it is difficult to impose obligations upon a third party beneficiary. If an obligation is put upon them, we need at least an approval of the third party beneficiary. If take the wordings, we encounter several problems: First, we have to determine who the third party beneficiaries are. As this is 'the public', we cannot single out one party and we are not able to ask the entire world for approval. The wording itself is somewhat vague so it is difficult for the Third party beneficiary to determine what obligations he can expect. Therefore, I have doubts if a third party beneficiary will agree to the wording. Further, the wording might give an impression of the possibility of to discriminate certain third parties. This might lead to further problems with Standard Bodies, which expect non-discriminatory rules.

What I see as an huge advantage of the current wording is, that the term 'may' to our understanding allows us a certain flexibility. We can agree upon royalty-terms but we do not have to. We can agree upon other terms or additional terms as well. We can ask the third party directly and we are not bound by the CA to ask for royalty-free + certain conditions. I prefer flexibility towards third parties.

Therefore SAP disagrees with this wording and cannot accept it.

Thank you and best regards,
Kathrin

Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M.
Contract Specialist
Global Legal
SAP AG
Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16
69190 Walldorf, Germany
T +49 6227 7-64369
F +49 6227 78-54177
E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com<blocked::mailto:nadine.heitmann at sap.com>
http://www.sap.com<http://www.sap.com/>
Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Walldorf, Germany
Vorstand/SAP Executive Board: Bill McDermot (Sprecher/Co-CEO), Jim Hagemann Snabe (Sprecher/Co-CEO), Werner Brandt, Gerhard Oswald, Vishal Sikka
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairperson of the SAP Supervisory Board: Hasso Plattner
Registergericht/Commercial Register Mannheim No HRB 350269

Diese e-mail kann Betriebs- oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse, dem Anwaltsgeheimnis unterliegende oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese e-mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielfältigung oder Weitergabe der e-mail ausdrücklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene e-mail. Vielen Dank.
Prepared by a member of SAP Global Legal. This message and any attachments may contain information that is confidential, private or protected by the attorney-client or other privilege. If you have received this email in error, please delete this message without further copying or distribution and promptly notify me. Thank you for your cooperation.



Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Du Besset Mathilde
Gesendet: Freitag, 2. September 2011 17:58
An: robert.sarrazin at orange-ftgroup.com; susanne.weikl at nsn.com; Bettina.Lehmann at telekom.de; fabian.perpeet at zv.fraunhofer.de; SUZANNE at il.ibm.com
Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; thierry.nagellen at orange-ftgroup.com; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu
Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE CONSORTIUM AGREEMENT

Dear all,

Technicolor supports the proposal made by NSN,  as modified  by Orange.

With best regards.


Mathilde du Besset
Legal counsel - Intellectual property

[cid:717420907 at 06092011-04DA]
1 rue Jeanne d'Arc
92130 Issy-les-Moulineaux, France
Tel: + 33 (0)1.41.86.51.72
mathilde.dubesset at technicolor.com<mailto:mathilde.dubesset at technicolor.com>
[cid:717420907 at 06092011-04E1]

Help preserve the color of our world - Think before you print.





De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de robert.sarrazin at orange-ftgroup.com
Envoyé : vendredi 2 septembre 2011 12:32
À : susanne.weikl at nsn.com; Bettina.Lehmann at telekom.de; fabian.perpeet at zv.fraunhofer.de; SUZANNE at il.ibm.com
Cc : thierry.nagellen at orange-ftgroup.com; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu
Objet : Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE CONSORTIUM AGREEMENT

Dear all,

 If a majority of parties is Ok  with  the addition proposed by NSN , we can live with such an addition. In this latter case maybe we can precise as follows ( to avoid any doubt that additional conditions are applicable to third parties only  - if my understanding is correct  ) :

For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party, subject to - in case of a third party -   additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party_or Parties , may develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis.")

The current wording proposed by Telefonica can also  be accepted

Best regards

________________________________
De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de Weikl, Susanne (NSN - DE/Munich)
Envoyé : jeudi 1 septembre 2011 09:47
À : Bettina.Lehmann at telekom.de; fabian.perpeet at zv.fraunhofer.de; SUZANNE at il.ibm.com
Cc : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu
Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE CONSORTIUM AGREEMENT

Hello,

In order to  facilitate the decision making:

We have so far only heard SAP objecting to the proposal - we think that the concern can be overcome with the clarification sent out yesterday.

("For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party, subject to additional conditions or agreement ____where requested by a Party____, may develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis.")

All other Parties who responded were either of the opinion, that the addition might not necessarily be necessary or were only concerned about timing.

Is the conclusion correct that the majority could basically live with the addition?

Please speak up, so that we know, whether we have a decision or not and can proceed!

Thanks & Best Regards,

Susanne Weikl

Senior Legal Counsel
St.-Martin-Straße 76
41.4017
D-80240 Munich
Tel: +49 89 5159 36940
Mob: +49 160 9062 7495
Fax: +49 89 5159 44 36940
susanne.weikl at nsn.com
http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/global/
Think before you print

Nokia Siemens Networks GmbH & Co. KG
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München / Registered office: Munich
Registergericht: München / Commercial registry: Munich, HRA 88537
WEEE-Reg.-Nr.: DE 52984304

Persönlich haftende Gesellschafterin / General Partner: Nokia Siemens Networks Management GmbH
Geschäftsleitung / Board of Directors: Olaf Horsthemke, Dr. Hermann Rodler
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats / Chairman of supervisory board: Herbert Merz
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München / Registered office: Munich
Registergericht: München / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 163416
_________________________________________________________________________________
Important Note: This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may contain trade secrets and may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient please understand that you must not copy this e-mail or any attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.fiware.org/private/fiware-legal/attachments/20110906/cd558325/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image003.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 2233 bytes
Desc: image003.gif
URL: <https://lists.fiware.org/private/fiware-legal/attachments/20110906/cd558325/attachment.gif>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image004.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 8759 bytes
Desc: image004.jpg
URL: <https://lists.fiware.org/private/fiware-legal/attachments/20110906/cd558325/attachment.jpg>