Dear colleagues of legal departments, Going for a different legal notice, regarding the license to use GE Open Specifications, for each and every GE Open Specification will IMHO totally JEOPARDIZE the chances to achieve the expected impact with a project like FI-WARE. It will introduce a lot of confussion on potential users of the spec. Should they have to learn and analyze each and every license to use terms when, at the end of the day, they should end supporting the same CA clauses regarding public and royalty-free nature of specifications ? No single organization trying to achieve the goal of producing a uniform set of specifications (and I remind you that we are trying to develop here one) does anything like that. People would simply dismiss our potential contribution. The discussion about ownership of foreground, by the way, does not have anything to do with this discussion on how license the use of that foreground. The CA/GA is clear stating that foreground that is a FI-WARE GE implementation is licensed under the terms that the owner of that GE implementation determines (though has to be offered free of charge with the FI-PPP program and following FRAND terms otherwise). However, it is also clear stating that foreground that is a FI-WARE GE Open Specification has to be licensed royalty-free, allowing any party to develop implementations in compliance with the spec. There is therefore no reason why we cannot find a single common license for using FI-WARE GE Open Specifications. Best regards, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es email: jhierro at tid.es twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 On 22/05/12 16:41, Schweppe, Kathrin wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > please find below some discussions about the License, Telefonica proposed on Thursday for the Generic Enabler Specifications. I assume, it is beneficial for all partners to consider IBMs proposal. > > SAP supports IBM's point of view. > > Best regards, > Kathrin > > Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. > Legal Counsel > Global Legal > SAP AG > Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 > 69190 Walldorf, Germany > T +49 6227 7-64369 > F +49 6227 78-54177 > E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com > http://www.sap.com > Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Walldorf, Germany > Vorstand/SAP Executive Board: Bill McDermot (Sprecher/Co-CEO), Jim Hagemann Snabe (Sprecher/Co-CEO), Werner Brandt, Gerhard Oswald, Vishal Sikka > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairperson of the SAP Supervisory Board: Hasso Plattner > Registergericht/Commercial Register Mannheim No HRB 350269 > > Diese e-mail kann Betriebs- oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse, dem Anwaltsgeheimnis unterliegende oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese e-mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielfältigung oder Weitergabe der e-mail ausdrücklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene e-mail. Vielen Dank. > Prepared by a member of SAP Global Legal. This message and any attachments may contain information that is confidential, private or protected by the attorney-client or other privilege. If you have received this email in error, please delete this message without further copying or distribution and promptly notify me. Thank you for your cooperation. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne Erez [mailto:SUZANNE at il.ibm.com] > Sent: Dienstag, 22. Mai 2012 14:57 > To: Juanjo Hierro > Cc: Alex Glikson; 'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu); fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Schweppe, Kathrin > Subject: Re: [Fiware-pcc] [Fiware-wpl] Licence models > > Juanjo, > > Thank you for your note and for the explanation. It was helpful to > understand what your purpose is. > > There are two parts to the license - 1) the copyright statement and 2) the > license terms. > > The first part "Copyright © 2012 by FI-WARE Project partners unless > specified otherwise" while with the right intention, is not legally > binding on anything or anyone. The term" FI-WARE Project partners" is not > defined in any legally binding document. Additionally, it is according to > the CA and the GA that each Part is to write Copyright © 2012 by<PARTY > NAME OF PERSON WRITING THE SPEC>. Anything other than that is not in line > with the GA or CA. > > II.26. Ownership > 1. Foreground shall be the property of the beneficiary carrying out the > work generating that foreground. > > As to the second part, while the language may be acceptable, it is only > suggested that each party review it with their own legal department. As an > example, IBM has many standard licenses that we use for many purposes. We > will review this license, and decide to adopt it or a similar IBM one. > > I can not thank you enough, or express our appreciation for all the hard > work you have done as coordinator. thank you! > > Suzanne > > Suzanne Erez > Counsel, IPLaw, Israel > Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 > IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com > Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 > > "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and > looks like work" -- Thomas Edison, American inventor > > PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its > attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, > or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If > you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system > without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. > > > > From: Juanjo Hierro<jhierro at tid.es> > To: Alex Glikson/Haifa/IBM at IBMIL, > Cc: "'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu)" > <fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu>, "fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu" > <fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu>, "fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu" > <fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu>, Suzanne Erez/Haifa/IBM at IBMIL, > LUIS GARCIA GARCIA<lgg at tid.es>, "jhierro>> \"Juan J. Hierro > \""<jhierro at tid.es> > Date: 21/05/2012 09:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Fiware-pcc] [Fiware-wpl] Licence models > > > > > On 21/05/12 23:21, Alex Glikson wrote: > Dear Juanjo, all, > > Our legal department says there is no legal entity known as FIWARE > Project Parties. So FIWARE Project Parties can not be the owners of > anything, and can not be copyright owners either. > Well ... the trick here was that "FI-WARE Project Partners" on the wiki > is a link to the wiki page where project partners are listed ... so we > thought was a kind of abbreviation of the whole list of partners ... > > BTW, I have replaced any ocurrence of the "FI-WARE partner" in the legal > notice by "FI-WARE Project Partners" with the link to the wiki page listing > the FI-WARE Project Partners for consistency. > > It also says in the CA and the GA, that the party that creates the > Foreground is the owner of the Foreground. > > Nothing is said in the published FI-WARE Legal Notice about ownership. > The legal notice covers license to use which is different. What the legal > notices says in that respect is, essentially, that the specs are public and > royalty-free, therefore anyone can build products based on them, that the > FI-WARE partners are not responsible for identifying infringed patents, and > that the FI-WARE partners are not liable for errors in the specifications. > It doesn't say anything about ownership, so therefore any agreement between > FI-WARE partners about such ownerships (i.e., whatever is stated in the > CA/GA regarding ownership, prevails). Note that ownership doesn't equal > to license to use which is what we have tried to regulate here according to > the CA/GA. > > > While IBM supports making the specifications public, as per the DOW, > the DOW does not say we need to also give away ownership to what we > wrote. > > I don't see what are we giving away about ownership with the current > legal notice either. > > If you would like to write on your material "Copyright © 2012 FIWARE > Project partners" that is your decision. But we believe that each > Party should be able to decide if they want to retain ownership of > their own material. > > That's why I proposed to change the sentence to say "Copyright © 2012 by > FI-WARE Project partners" by "Copyright © 2012 by FI-WARE Project partners > unless specified otherwise" (FI-WARE project partners being a link), and > then you can negotiate the copyright that should come with whatever spec > has been produced within your chapter with the contributing parties. > > Do you object to that formula ? Indeed I believe it covers your > demands ... since you will be able to specify a different copyright > statement (but not license to use) on what you consider your material. > > Note that, regarding copyright, we just tried to avoid going public > without any sort of copyright. Now you can fix it if we introduce the > proposed change. Regarding the rest of the Legal Notice, we are just > defining the license to use specifications, in line with what the CA/GA > states. We don't say anything about ownership, so the CA/GA prevails. > > Best regards, > > -- Juanjo > > Regards, > Alex > > ==================================================================================================== > > Alex Glikson > Manager, Cloud Operating System Technologies, IBM Haifa Research Lab > http://w3.haifa.ibm.com/dept/stt/cloud_sys.html | > https://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/dept/stt/cloud_sys.shtml > Email: glikson at il.ibm.com | Phone: +972-4-8281085 | Mobile: > +972-54-6466667 | Fax: +972-4-8296112 > > > > > From: "Fasse, Axel"<axel.fasse at sap.com> > To: Juanjo Hierro<jhierro at tid.es>, > Cc: "fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu" > <fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu>, > "'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu)" > <fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu>, "fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu" > <fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu> > Date: 21/05/2012 05:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Fiware-wpl] [Fiware-wpa] Licence models > Sent by: fiware-wpl-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu > > > > Dear Juanjo, > > I’m already in discussions with our colleagues from the legal > department. > You will get a feedback as soon as possible. > > Best regards, > Axel > > From: Juanjo Hierro [mailto:jhierro at tid.es] > Sent: Montag, 21. Mai 2012 16:37 > To: Fasse, Axel > Cc: 'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu); JOSE > JIMENEZ DELGADO; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu; > fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [Fiware-wpa] Licence models > > > Ok. Given your support, I will go for the proposed option (change > "Copyright © 2012 FIWARE Project partners" by "Copyright © 2012 > FIWARE Project partners unless specified otherwise") unless anyone > objects before Wednesday 12:00 CET. > > Thanks and best regards, > > -- Juanjo > > > ------------- > Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital > website: www.tid.es > email: jhierro at tid.es > twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro > > FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Chief Architect > > You can follow FI-WARE at: > website: http://www.fi-ware.eu > facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 > twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware > linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 > > On 21/05/12 16:22, Fasse, Axel wrote: > Dear Juanjo, > > you don’t have to convince me about a pragmatic approach. > I think it is necessary to find a solution that is supported by all > partners. > > Best regards, > Axel > > From: Juanjo Hierro [mailto:jhierro at tid.es] > Sent: Montag, 21. Mai 2012 16:12 > To: Fasse, Axel > Cc: 'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu); JOSE > JIMENEZ DELGADO; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu; > fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [Fiware-wpa] Licence models > > > On 21/05/12 16:09, Juanjo Hierro wrote: > Dear Axel, > > Trying to be pragmatic, one suggestion is that we change the > sentence "Copyright © 2012 FIWARE Project partners" in the current > FI-WARE Open Specifications Legal Notice changes to become "Copyright > © 2012 FIWARE Project partners unless specified otherwise" ... and > then allow those companies that believe they "own" a given > specification to create a section at the beginning of the wiki page > linked to their spec where the proper copyright notice in their > opinion is written down. > > Of course, those companies that believe that the copyright of a > given specification only belongs to them should justify it and get at > least the agreement of at least partners of the same Chapter (e.g., > Security Chapter) or joint Task Force (e.g., FI-WARE NGSI) > > Best regards, > > -- Juanjo > > > Would that work for you ? > > Best regards, > > -- Juanjo > ------------- > Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital > website: www.tid.es > email: jhierro at tid.es > twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro > > FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Chief Architect > > You can follow FI-WARE at: > website: http://www.fi-ware.eu > facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 > twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware > linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 > > On 21/05/12 15:18, Fasse, Axel wrote: > Dear Juanjo, Dear Jose, > > we appreciate the work you and your legal team spend on the License > you have supplied us. However, we agree with IBM, that the License is > not based upon the CA because the copyright of the Generic Enabler > Specification and the Generic Enabler, esp. the Code, is owned by the > party who generated the Generic Enabler Specification and the Generic > Enabler. > We agree further with IBM, that each party is free to choose a > license of its choice under which the release to the public can > happen. > > Best regards, > > Axel Fasse > > > --------------------------- > > Axel Fasse > Senior Researcher > SAP Research Karlsruhe > > SAP AG > Vincenz-Priessnitz-Strasse 1 > 76131 Karlsruhe, Germany > > T +49 6227 7-52528 > F +49 6227 78-55237 > M +4915153858917 > E axel.fasse at sap.com > > www.sap.com > > Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: > http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx > > Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige > vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. 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