Dear Luis/Juanjo I'm just following up to see if any further progress has been made on this? Thanks in advance Tara From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Macmahon, Tara Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 6:28 PM To: robert.sarrazin at orange.com; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: HAMELIN Valerie SG/DJ; NAGELLEN Thierry OLNC/OLPS; RAES Serge OLNC/OLPS Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis and all Please find attached Intel's comments on the Legal Notice Explicit Grant, which is the one which Intel will use. I accepted all changes and removed all comments to the version you circulated on 16 May, and so the attached shows the only three changes we require. Best regards Tara From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu> [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of robert.sarrazin at orange.com<mailto:robert.sarrazin at orange.com> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:57 PM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu> Cc: HAMELIN Valerie SG/DJ; NAGELLEN Thierry OLNC/OLPS; RAES Serge OLNC/OLPS Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis and all, Thank you Luis for your e mail. - First of all we do not support the use of the legal Notice with "implicit grant " for the reasons explained in our previous comments . - Concerning the legal Notice with " explicit grant" we think that we can accept this provided that a slight modification should be made in the definition of " Necessarily infringed " which should read as follows. "Necessarily infringed" shall mean that no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement." We think that the term " reasonable " should be deleted for consistency . Best regards De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu> [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoyé : jeudi 23 mai 2013 12:46 À : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu> Objet : [Fiware-legal] RV: FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Following Juanjo´s comments: 1,. About the "applicable law and settlement of dispute" question: from our perspective it´s preferable not include here a reference to the "applicable law or settlement of dispute" since the Copyright holder (s) vary from one Specification to another. We see no advantage in including a "neutral solution" (that could be "Belgium law and courts") and also do not consider that a section like this would work: Governing Law and Jurisdiction "You agree that all matters relating to the use of the "FI-WARE <NAME OF SPECIFICATION> Open Specifications" shall be governed by the law the Copyright Holders determine. You agree and hereby submit to the exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue of the Courts the Copyright Holders decide, with respect to such matters." Further, no similar "legal notices" contains a specific section of "Applicable law and or Settlement of disputes" Please check, i.e.: http://www.omg.org/spec/BPMN/20100601/10-06-02.pdf Applicable law and courts will be determined, if no agreement is reached, in accordance with the applicable International Private contract governing rules. 2.- Regarding the Robert´s suggestion about the convenience of replacing of Copyright Holder by IPR Holder, although we understand the Robert´s rationale, we prefer to be aligned with the usual solution adopted in similar legal notices that are successfully working and that generate trust for developers. Further, in the "implicit model" we have modified the tittle "Copyright license" by "License" in line with current Legal Notices of similar specifications. Please check, i.e.: http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~ven/CIS/OMG/minimum%20corba%201.0.pdf The implicit patent license exist since, accordingly with this "implicit model" the Copyright holders are hereby authorizing to "to use this Specification, to create and distribute special purpose specifications and software that is an implementation of this Specification" We´ve also slightly modify last paragraph of the Warranty section in accordance with the mentioned principles, suppressing yellow marked words. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF SOFTWARE DEVELOPED USING THIS SPECIFICATION IS BORNE BY YOU. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE PATENT AND COPYRIGHT LICENSE GRANTED TO YOU TO USE THIS SPECIFICATION Finally, let us remind you that each partner/ partners may decide which legal notices prefer to use for their Specification. Some of them prefers the implicit models; others, the explicit.. This has been an open debate from the very beginning. We kindly invite you to check this final drafts and to accept them (except any typo). We must deliver the final version and we must do it now. No further delay is possible. Best regards Luis García Legal Dept Telefónica I+D De: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu> [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de Juanjo Hierro Enviado el: jueves, 23 de mayo de 2013 3:44 Para: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu> Asunto: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE On 22/05/13 23:51, BEDOUI Patricia wrote: Dear Luis and all, With respect to the discussion related to the implicit/explicit patent grant, we share the opinion of Orange expressed by Robert Sarrazin. Indeed, from a legal point of view, IPRs can only be used by an implementer if they have been expressly granted. Organizations like the OMG (Object Management Group) that are specialized in producing standard Open Specifications and have run such business more than 20 years incorporating a Legal Notice to the specifications they publish which follows the same approach as the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Are you telling me they have been wrong running such a business which has produced some of the most significant standards in the software industry in these past 20 years ? Sounds strange to me. The credentials of these kind of organizations, BTW, is why we, at Telefonica, are more in favour of the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Furthermore, to let each partner choose the legal notice it prefers -as suggested in your e.mail - does not seem to be workable. If the IPRs holders of a specification do not agree concerning the notice choice -as is already the case-, then we will be facing a deadlock. Obviously, the decision on Legal Notice should go per Open Specification, not by partner. Maybe my email was confusing. Apologies for that. What I tried to say is that each partner can go for pushing one notice or the other when negotiating which one to use in a given specification. Many of them are owned by a single organization or a few number of organizations, that's why it shouldn't be that problematic. knowing what are the Open Specifications and the companies/organizations behind each one, I believe this won't be that problematic in practice. Ideally, we should only have one Legal Notice and we battled for that at the beginning but this was found finally impossible after several months of discussions, so we found the compromise for defining these two for which, in practice, there wouldn't be so many conflicts. We also agree that the definition of "essential patents" should be strictly restricted to the patents for which no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. Ok As expressed some weeks ago, we confirm that we are in favour of FRAND conditions for the license under patents. FRAND conditions do not exclude the possibility to grant patents royalty-free. We do not question the royalty-free condition when relating to the specification which only requires a copyright license. But the royalty-free condition should not apply automatically when it relates to the implementation of the specification requiring the use of patents. As I said in my email some days ago. We won't run discussions on this any longer. It's pretty clear what the contract and the Consortium Agreement signed by all of us say in this respect. Also our position as coordinator with respect how we will handle this. Finally, you have not taken into account our requests regarding the mentioning of the applicable law and the settlement of disputes which are common clauses in a contract. Curiously enough, such clauses are not present in other open specifications like the ones published by OMG. In a first approach, I tend to believe this is probably because that may tend to put barriers to adoption of specifications, while those organizations tend to try lowering the barriers of adoption of their specifications (same as we should with our FI-WARE specifications). Aren't there international rules that are applied to define what would be the applicable laws and the procedures for settlement of disputes depending on the parties involved in a litigation ? I leave this question to Luis. Best regards, -- Juanjo Best regards, Patricia BEDOUI Legal Counsel Thales Communications & Security SAS 4, Avenue des Louvresses 92622 GENNEVILLIERS cedex Tel. : +33(0)1 46 13 34 30 Fax : +33(0)1 46 13 21 92 The present message is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. The information contained therein may be confidential or privileged and its disclosure or reproduction is strictly forbidden. If you have received this communication in error, please return it immediately to its sender and destroy it. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu> [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu]<mailto:[mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu]> De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoyé : jeudi 16 mai 2013 15:49 À : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu> Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs¡ Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis García García Asesoria Jurídica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telefónica Investigación y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6ª planta Ronda de la Comunicación s/n 28050-Madrid (España) [cid:part4.09060703.06090906 at tid.es] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra política de envío y recepción de correo electrónico en el enlace situado más abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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Thank you. _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu> https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra política de envío y recepción de correo electrónico en el enlace situado más abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra política de envío y recepción de correo electrónico en el enlace situado más abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. 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