From jdps at tid.es Fri Mar 1 15:12:54 2013 From: jdps at tid.es (JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 14:12:54 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE: About amendment 3 Message-ID: <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C71C074409@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear all, today we have received the approval of the updated DoW with the addition of new partners from Open Call 1. Please find enclosed the document downloaded from NEF: http://forge.fi-ware.eu/docman/view.php/27/1895/DOW+FI-WARE+%28285248%29+2013-03-01.pdf We are in the last step of the signature process of the contractual documentation, so we expect that the amendment 3 will be approved in the following days. Thank you very much for your contribution, and I kindly ask you to following with your contribution in the new amendment 4 which will include the pending changes. I'll generate a new version from this one and I'll send it to you next week for your review. BR Javier. ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdps at tid.es Wed Mar 6 22:36:13 2013 From: jdps at tid.es (JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ) Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 21:36:13 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE: About amendment 3 In-Reply-To: <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C71C074409@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C71C074409@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C71C0878CE@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear all, please find enclosed the scanned copy of the signed documents of the new partners from Open Call 1. We have sent all the original copies to the Commission, so we expect that the amendment 3 will be approved in the coming days. BR Javier. De: fiware-administrative-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-administrative-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ Enviado el: viernes, 01 de marzo de 2013 15:13 Para: fiware-administrative at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Asunto: [Fiware-administrative] FI-WARE: About amendment 3 Importancia: Alta Dear all, today we have received the approval of the updated DoW with the addition of new partners from Open Call 1. Please find enclosed the document downloaded from NEF: http://forge.fi-ware.eu/docman/view.php/27/1895/DOW+FI-WARE+%28285248%29+2013-03-01.pdf We are in the last step of the signature process of the contractual documentation, so we expect that the amendment 3 will be approved in the following days. Thank you very much for your contribution, and I kindly ask you to following with your contribution in the new amendment 4 which will include the pending changes. I'll generate a new version from this one and I'll send it to you next week for your review. BR Javier. ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FORM-B - Amendment 3.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 1267588 bytes Desc: FORM-B - Amendment 3.zip URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Accession to Consortium Agreement - Amendment 3.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 797250 bytes Desc: Accession to Consortium Agreement - Amendment 3.zip URL: From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Thu Mar 7 13:31:07 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 12:31:07 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] [Fiware-pcc] Fwd: Re: FI-PPP Phase 2 Revision 4 In-Reply-To: References: <51387635.8030900@tid.es> <51387814.7010203@tid.es> Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9D517@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Dear Juanjo, you can send those comments as Telefonica's Comments to the EC, however, we disagree, if you send those comments as FI-Ware comments. BR, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Fasse, Axel Sent: Donnerstag, 7. M?rz 2013 12:45 To: Schweppe, Kathrin Subject: FW: [Fiware-pcc] Fwd: Re: FI-PPP Phase 2 Revision 4 * PGP Signed: 07.03.2013 at 12:45:13, Decrypted From: fiware-pcc-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-pcc-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Juanjo Hierro Sent: Donnerstag, 7. M?rz 2013 12:21 To: fiware-ga at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-pcc] Fwd: Re: FI-PPP Phase 2 Revision 4 Hi all, Find enclosed a first reaction on the response to our comments sent by David Kennedy. Since time is moving fast, I take the risk of sending this response although we didn't have to discuss them first internally. However, I feel confident it would be fine because I was essentially claiming that we don't accept the rejection of some of our comments. Regarding rejection of our comment on the role of the PrC, I believe that I had to "neutralize" the argument that the proposed text was not valid because it was referring to the Collaboration Agreement. Then I have just suggested to replace "according to the processes laid down in the Collaboration Agreement and the individual projects' internal procedures" by "according to their internally defined procedures" which, at the end of the day, is the same. I hope you agree. Otherwise, let me know and I will send the necessary amendment. Best regards, -- Juanjo -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: FI-PPP Phase 2 Revision 4 Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:12:53 +0100 From: Juanjo Hierro To: David Kennedy CC: Fatelnig Peter , "Ragnar.Bergstrom at ec.europa.eu" , "Jesus.Villasante at ec.europa.eu" , Lakaniemi Ilkka , "jhierro >> \"Juan J. Hierro\"" On 05/03/13 09:39, David Kennedy wrote: * Given said the above, clarifications or further development of the description of some tasks may be feasible. Indeed, we propose to further develop/refine the following tasks assigned to the AB in the Collaboration Agreement: * task: "continuously monitor the technical progress of the FII Program, evaluate alignment and recommend corrective actions in case of technical divergence" in the CA --> We propose to copy the description but add the following sentence: "As an example, continuously monitor how recommendations on usage of FI-WARE Generic Enablers are implemented by UC projects." * task: "analyze the standardization activities identified by any FII Project or the Steering Board, issue recommendations for FII Program level standardization activities" in the CA --> We propose to add "carried out in the Standardization Working Group" It is more than my life is worth to modify terms when we are trying to ensure alignment with the CA. This would just cause arguments. Sorry but this solution doesn't work for us. Making it clear that the AB will monitor how recommendations on usage of FI-WARE Generic Enablers are implemented by UC projects is key. Actually, we want to make it clear this is a concrete task part of the monitoring of technical progress. Indeed one of the most important tasks carried out by the AB. Regarding the task on standardization, what we just try is to refine what is in the Collaboration Agreement to make it clear what the AB will do that is in line with the CA but also in line with creation of the Standardization WG. Adding a point like: "analyze the standardization activities identified by any FII Project or the Steering Board and issue recommendations for FII Program level standardization activities to be handle by the Standardization Working Group" helps to make things nicely coexist. * Regarding mandate of Project Coordinators as described in section 4.2, particularly the paragraph saying: "PrCs have the responsibility to discuss proposals for SB decisions in their project in good time and to get the mandate from their consortium to to discuss, negotiate and decide on the SB agenda items.". We propose to replace it by "PrCs should discuss the proposals for the SB decisions in their project according to the processes laid down in the Collaboration Agreement and the individual projects' internal procedures involving all project partners and get the necessary mandate, together with the second representative of the sending FII project consortium, to discuss, negotiate and decide about the content of the respective recommendation of the SB" NO - this would somehow put the collaboration agreement over the DoW and the commission will never accept this. And the SB allows for SB decisions so we don't need to hide behind recommendations. If the issue is mentioning to the Collaboration Agreement, you may just say "PrCs should discuss the proposals for the SB decisions in their project according to their internally defined procedures involving all project partners in order to get the necessary mandate, together with the second representative of the sending FII project consortium, to discuss, negotiate and decide about the content of the respective recommendation of the SB". Best regards, -- Juanjo ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx * D055237 > * 0x23174579:0x48FFD1EC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhierro at tid.es Thu Mar 7 14:56:49 2013 From: jhierro at tid.es (Juanjo Hierro) Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:56:49 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] [Fiware-pcc] Fwd: Re: FI-PPP Phase 2 Revision 4 In-Reply-To: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9D517@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> References: <51387635.8030900@tid.es> <51387814.7010203@tid.es> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9D517@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Message-ID: <51389CA1.7000002@tid.es> Dear Kathrin, I have pointed out that my comments are temporary and that they should not taken as definitive until confirmation by the rest of the FI-WARE partners. Please check my last email. Regarding that last email I have sent, I would kindly ask SAP to please let me know whether there is any objection to the solutions proposed by David and, if so, what is the rationale. Honestly, I believe the solution proposed by David covers the expectations. Best regards, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es email: jhierro at tid.es twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator and Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 On 07/03/13 13:31, Schweppe, Kathrin wrote: Dear Juanjo, you can send those comments as Telefonica's Comments to the EC, however, we disagree, if you send those comments as FI-Ware comments. BR, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Fasse, Axel Sent: Donnerstag, 7. M?rz 2013 12:45 To: Schweppe, Kathrin Subject: FW: [Fiware-pcc] Fwd: Re: FI-PPP Phase 2 Revision 4 * PGP Signed: 07.03.2013 at 12:45:13, Decrypted From: fiware-pcc-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-pcc-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Juanjo Hierro Sent: Donnerstag, 7. M?rz 2013 12:21 To: fiware-ga at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-pcc] Fwd: Re: FI-PPP Phase 2 Revision 4 Hi all, Find enclosed a first reaction on the response to our comments sent by David Kennedy. Since time is moving fast, I take the risk of sending this response although we didn't have to discuss them first internally. However, I feel confident it would be fine because I was essentially claiming that we don't accept the rejection of some of our comments. Regarding rejection of our comment on the role of the PrC, I believe that I had to "neutralize" the argument that the proposed text was not valid because it was referring to the Collaboration Agreement. Then I have just suggested to replace "according to the processes laid down in the Collaboration Agreement and the individual projects' internal procedures" by "according to their internally defined procedures" which, at the end of the day, is the same. I hope you agree. Otherwise, let me know and I will send the necessary amendment. Best regards, -- Juanjo -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: FI-PPP Phase 2 Revision 4 Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:12:53 +0100 From: Juanjo Hierro To: David Kennedy CC: Fatelnig Peter , "Ragnar.Bergstrom at ec.europa.eu" , "Jesus.Villasante at ec.europa.eu" , Lakaniemi Ilkka , "jhierro >> \"Juan J. Hierro\"" On 05/03/13 09:39, David Kennedy wrote: * Given said the above, clarifications or further development of the description of some tasks may be feasible. Indeed, we propose to further develop/refine the following tasks assigned to the AB in the Collaboration Agreement: * task: "continuously monitor the technical progress of the FII Program, evaluate alignment and recommend corrective actions in case of technical divergence" in the CA --> We propose to copy the description but add the following sentence: "As an example, continuously monitor how recommendations on usage of FI-WARE Generic Enablers are implemented by UC projects." * task: "analyze the standardization activities identified by any FII Project or the Steering Board, issue recommendations for FII Program level standardization activities" in the CA --> We propose to add "carried out in the Standardization Working Group" It is more than my life is worth to modify terms when we are trying to ensure alignment with the CA. This would just cause arguments. Sorry but this solution doesn't work for us. Making it clear that the AB will monitor how recommendations on usage of FI-WARE Generic Enablers are implemented by UC projects is key. Actually, we want to make it clear this is a concrete task part of the monitoring of technical progress. Indeed one of the most important tasks carried out by the AB. Regarding the task on standardization, what we just try is to refine what is in the Collaboration Agreement to make it clear what the AB will do that is in line with the CA but also in line with creation of the Standardization WG. Adding a point like: "analyze the standardization activities identified by any FII Project or the Steering Board and issue recommendations for FII Program level standardization activities to be handle by the Standardization Working Group" helps to make things nicely coexist. * Regarding mandate of Project Coordinators as described in section 4.2, particularly the paragraph saying: "PrCs have the responsibility to discuss proposals for SB decisions in their project in good time and to get the mandate from their consortium to to discuss, negotiate and decide on the SB agenda items.". We propose to replace it by "PrCs should discuss the proposals for the SB decisions in their project according to the processes laid down in the Collaboration Agreement and the individual projects' internal procedures involving all project partners and get the necessary mandate, together with the second representative of the sending FII project consortium, to discuss, negotiate and decide about the content of the respective recommendation of the SB" NO - this would somehow put the collaboration agreement over the DoW and the commission will never accept this. And the SB allows for SB decisions so we don't need to hide behind recommendations. If the issue is mentioning to the Collaboration Agreement, you may just say "PrCs should discuss the proposals for the SB decisions in their project according to their internally defined procedures involving all project partners in order to get the necessary mandate, together with the second representative of the sending FII project consortium, to discuss, negotiate and decide about the content of the respective recommendation of the SB". Best regards, -- Juanjo ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx * D055237 > * 0x23174579:0x48FFD1EC ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From axel.fasse at sap.com Fri Mar 8 11:55:24 2013 From: axel.fasse at sap.com (Fasse, Axel) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 10:55:24 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] [Fiware-wpl] FI-WARE: Amendment 2 In-Reply-To: <7ED7B27AF3542948BAB7BCD179A7677C25DAD82BA5@DEWDFECCR03.wdf.sap.corp> References: <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C705F11502@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C705F16F53@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C705F48BCD@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <7ED7B27AF3542948BAB7BCD179A7677C25DAD82BA5@DEWDFECCR03.wdf.sap.corp> Message-ID: Dear Javier, so far as I know, we have not received any confirmation that this Amendment was includes in one of the last Amendments. If not, please ensure that this is included in the upcoming Amendment 4. Please confirm that this issue will handled accordingly in Amendment 4. Best regards, Axel From: fiware-wpl-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-wpl-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Freitag, 14. Dezember 2012 16:14 To: JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ; fiware-administrative at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: subsidies at tid.es Subject: Re: [Fiware-wpl] FI-WARE: Amendment 2 Dear Javier, thank you very much for your notification, however, I would like to know, whether or not you have included our amendment request dated from October last year. If not, please include it into this amendment. Thank you very much for your information, Best regards, Kathrin Schweppe Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ Sent: Freitag, 14. Dezember 2012 14:16 To: fiware-administrative at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: subsidies at tid.es Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE: Amendment 2 Importance: High Dear all, Project Officer has accepted the requested changes #1 and #49 of the amendment 2. [cid:image001.jpg at 01CE1BF3.D11043B0] The rest of the changes are still under his evaluation for next amendments. BR Javier. De: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 28 de noviembre de 2012 10:56 Para: fiware-administrative at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: subsidies at tid.es Asunto: [Fiware-legal] RV: FI-WARE: Amendment 2 Dear all, Yesterday I received a message from a partner who told me he hadn't received my previous e-mail. It was due of the size of the DoW. In order to be sure that all of you receive this important e-mail, I send it again in a plain text with references to the docs in the forgefusion utility of the project and without attachments. I apologize if you receive this e-mail twice. Twice better than none. Please find the links to the documentation about amendment 2: Documentation: DoW (Sent to P.O.) -> http://forge.fi-ware.eu/docman/view.php/27/1716/FI-WARE+-+Amendment+2+-+DoW+-+v2.docx Modified Dow with the requested modifications and the received comments. Description of the requested changes (Sent to P.O.) -> http://forge.fi-ware.eu/docman/view.php/27/1717/FI-WARE+-+Amendment+2+-+Change+Details+-+v2.pdf It's a printed extract of the excel file Details of the changes in the budget (Sent to P.O.) -> http://forge.fi-ware.eu/docman/view.php/27/1718/FI-WARE+-+Amendment+2+-+Budget+Details.pdf It's a printed extract of the excel file Excel file with the changes and calculations (Sent to you): http://forge.fi-ware.eu/docman/view.php/27/1720/FI-WARE+-+Amendment+2+-+v2.xlsx It's a second version where I have changed the look&file of the "Changes - Amendment 2" sheet. Amendment's Schedule: To send to Consortium: November 22th, 2012 (Done) To receive comments: By November 24th, 2012 (Done) To update amendment with the comments: November 25th, 2012 (Done) To send to Project Officer to be evaluated: November 25th, 2012. (Done) To sign new GPF: After the approval of Commission and only by the partners which budget has been modified. (Pending) To sign FORM-B (GA) and the adherence to the CA: After the approval of Commission and only by the new partners in the Consortium. (Pending) Please, don't hesitate to ask me if you need any additional information. (Please, to avoid spam for others, send the e-mail to me, keeping subsidies at tid.es in the recipient list) We and you are spending a lot of time trying to close the final version and we think it is done, but if there is something important to change (a mistake or misunderstanding), please tell me it as soon as possible. We?ll try to manage it. Please don't request any additional change more not approved by Juanjo Hierro. More changes will have to wait to next amendments. As usual, I kindly ask you to send me and e-mail telling me that you agree with the changes. No news from you in a week will mean you agree. BR Javier. De: fiware-administrative-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-administrative-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ Enviado el: jueves, 22 de noviembre de 2012 1:51 Para: fiware-administrative at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu Asunto: [Fiware-administrative] FI-WARE: Amendment 2 Dear all, first I apologize for this huge e-mail but this second amendment has too many changes and we have spent a lot of time on it. Thank you very much for your contributions, without them, this would be impossible. Please find enclosed: 1.- The updated DoW (with version control on). 2.- An Excel file called "FI-WARE - Amendment 2" where you can find the following sheets: Funding Current DoW : The effort and funding in the current DoW. Changes - Amendment 2: Brief description of each change. PM Amendment 2: New effort. NEF before & after: Budget and Funding. How it was and how it will be on NEF. If you have any relevant comments or questions please do it to subsidies at tid.es as soon as possible. Our goal is to send it to Project Officer by November 24th, 2012. Note: In this amendment we (as coordinator) are going to inform to the Project Officer that our bank account has changed due to the fusion of two Spanish banks. BR Javier. ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22631 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From axel.fasse at sap.com Fri Mar 8 13:09:10 2013 From: axel.fasse at sap.com (Fasse, Axel) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 12:09:10 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FW: [Fiware-ga] Comments on Revision 5 of the FI-WARE Governance Message-ID: Dear Juanjo, please note, that the version 5 send around by David Kennedy still does not respect the anti-trust law concerns of some of the partners. As these concerns are very serious, SAP takes those concerns as very urgent and important. You have not included those concerns in your preliminary comments on behalf of Fi-Ware to the EC, on which you do not have the mandate upon from the entire Fi-Ware consortium. You only have the mandate to send your comments, if you have not the sufficient majority from the GA. Please show SAP, that you had the sufficient majority, with no veto from other partners. For SAP, we do veto the inclusion of the proposed DOW inclusion due to the fact that breaches of anti-trust law have been raised without sufficient concerns. Best regards, Axel --------------------------- Axel Fasse Senior Researcher SAP Research Karlsruhe SAP AG Vincenz-Priessnitz-Strasse 1 76131 Karlsruhe, Germany T +49 6227 7-52528 M +4915153858917 E axel.fasse at sap.com --------------------------- Axel Fasse Senior Researcher SAP Research Karlsruhe SAP AG Vincenz-Priessnitz-Strasse 1 76131 Karlsruhe, Germany T +49 6227 7-52528 M +4915153858917 E axel.fasse at sap.com www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. This e-mail may contain trade secrets or privileged, undisclosed, or otherwise confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, you are hereby notified that any review, copying, or distribution of it is strictly prohibited. Please inform us immediately and destroy the original transmittal. Thank you for your cooperation. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Tue Mar 12 17:09:42 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:09:42 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] Governance Model FI PPP Rev. 6 Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E583@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Dear Juanjo, please find attached SAP's revision. There is still missing wording regarding the prevalence. I have inserted two sentences regarding the prevalence, which I think are matching a) the Commission's view regarding the prevalence of documents and b) the applicability of the Collaboration Agreement. If we do not include any clarification, this text is a fast track to breach the Collaboration Agreement. Please note, that David Kennedy did not take over the agreed wording from FI-Ware. He thinks the Project Coordinators and representatives should be only able to decide upon the which items should be on the agenda of the Steering Board rather than deciding the items themselves. This would make the decision power of the Steering Board pretty toothless. In S. 3.2. I included the same sentence as the mandate of the Steering Board Member. This should be consistent throughout the entire governance model. Furthermore, the choice of mediation should be the choice of the partners. Please note, that in the case of a dispute between the EC and a partner, the Grant Agreement foresees a dispute resolution via the competent court of Brussels. It might be worth to reconsider any wording regarding mediation as the EC, or better their Legal Department could consider the mediation sentences in conflict with the Grant Agreement. Thanks and best regards, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Proposed FI PPP Governance Model Rev-6_110313_revSAP.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 283509 bytes Desc: Proposed FI PPP Governance Model Rev-6_110313_revSAP.docx URL: From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Tue Mar 12 17:12:00 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:12:00 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] Governance Model FI PPP Rev. 6 Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E5A3@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> I apologize for resending, as I pressed the send button too early. Dear Juanjo, please find attached SAP's revision. There is still missing wording regarding the prevalence. I have inserted two sentences regarding the prevalence, which I think are matching a) the Commission's view regarding the prevalence of documents and b) the applicability of the Collaboration Agreement. If we do not include any clarification, this text is a fast track to breach the Collaboration Agreement. Please note, that David Kennedy did not take over the agreed wording from FI-Ware. He thinks the Project Coordinators and representatives should be only able to decide upon the which items should be on the agenda of the Steering Board rather than deciding the items themselves. This would make the decision power of the Steering Board pretty toothless. In S. 3.2. I included the same sentence as the mandate of the Steering Board Member. This should be consistent throughout the entire governance model. Furthermore, the choice of mediation should be the choice of the partners. Please note, that in the case of a dispute between the EC and a partner, the Grant Agreement foresees a dispute resolution via the competent court of Brussels. It might be worth to reconsider any wording regarding mediation as the EC, or better their Legal Department could consider the mediation sentences in conflict with the Grant Agreement. Thanks and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Proposed FI PPP Governance Model Rev-6_110313_revSAP.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 283509 bytes Desc: Proposed FI PPP Governance Model Rev-6_110313_revSAP.docx URL: From jhierro at tid.es Wed Mar 13 14:21:30 2013 From: jhierro at tid.es (Juanjo Hierro) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:21:30 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] Governance Model FI PPP Rev. 6 In-Reply-To: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E583@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> References: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E583@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Message-ID: <51407D5A.5090007@tid.es> Dear Kathrin, I believe your proposal regarding the prevalence is ok, assuming it is clear that all the DoW has prevalence, not just the fragment of text that will become part of the governance description. Indeed, I believe it would be better if we say: The DOW prevails over the Collaboration Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt, where this governance model does not set up rules for the governance between the FI PPP Projects, the Collaboration agreement applies. Regarding your proposed changes regarding mediation, I don't understand why you are proposing something different than what we proposed after our PCC confcall on the matter. Regarding the other changes you propose, I'm fine with them. Indeed they are capturing what we proposed last time to David. Please clarify me the question on mediation so that I can forward this on behalf of FI-WARE. Opinions from others are of course welcome. Best regards, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es email: jhierro at tid.es twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator and Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 On 12/03/13 17:09, Schweppe, Kathrin wrote: Dear Juanjo, please find attached SAP's revision. There is still missing wording regarding the prevalence. I have inserted two sentences regarding the prevalence, which I think are matching a) the Commission's view regarding the prevalence of documents and b) the applicability of the Collaboration Agreement. If we do not include any clarification, this text is a fast track to breach the Collaboration Agreement. Please note, that David Kennedy did not take over the agreed wording from FI-Ware. He thinks the Project Coordinators and representatives should be only able to decide upon the which items should be on the agenda of the Steering Board rather than deciding the items themselves. This would make the decision power of the Steering Board pretty toothless. In S. 3.2. I included the same sentence as the mandate of the Steering Board Member. This should be consistent throughout the entire governance model. Furthermore, the choice of mediation should be the choice of the partners. Please note, that in the case of a dispute between the EC and a partner, the Grant Agreement foresees a dispute resolution via the competent court of Brussels. It might be worth to reconsider any wording regarding mediation as the EC, or better their Legal Department could consider the mediation sentences in conflict with the Grant Agreement. Thanks and best regards, ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Wed Mar 13 17:04:58 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:04:58 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] Governance Model FI PPP Rev. 6 In-Reply-To: <51407D5A.5090007@tid.es> References: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E583@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <51407D5A.5090007@tid.es> Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E99A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Dear Juanjo, Your wording would explicitly invalidate the entire 12 pages of the entire governance model of the Collaboration Agreement by explicitly excluding that ? Maybe that was unintentional, either way, this is inacceptable. The proposed model is insufficient to regulate the entire governance. It is missing really essential rules for governance between the projects, e.g. the responsibilities of each FI PPP participants, rules for voting and composition of Boards etc. I do not think, it is wise to get rid of all of those rules, esp. those who are undisputed, with your wording. I understand the goal here more as some fine tuning of the governance model and not throwing the entire governance model away. I thought a while about the wording you used regarding mediation. First, I thought it was ok, taking into account the role of the EC foreseen in Rev. 3. However, thinking and analyzing it once more with a changed role of the EC addressing the anti-trust law issues on the EIB, it appeared to me, that a dispute with the EC could appear under this governance model. Dispute resolution with the EC in a FP 7 project is regulated in the Core Grant Agreement S. 9 and with mediation regarding the Governance model for the EIB. The Grant Agreement says clearly that dispute resolution is before the competent court of Brussels without any possibility of mediation with the EC. Having these rules in mind, I doubt, that the EC is accepting mediation on matters of the EIB and they will regard the wording, in so far as it is binding the EC, as invalid. As my proposed wording is emphasizing the choice of the partners regarding mediation, meaning in essence the same as the old wording, it avoids confusion regarding the disputes with the EC. Thanks for your understanding, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Juanjo Hierro [mailto:jhierro at tid.es] Sent: Mittwoch, 13. M?rz 2013 14:22 To: Schweppe, Kathrin Cc: 'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu) (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu); fiware-ga at lists.fi-ware.eu; Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; 'fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu) Subject: Re: Governance Model FI PPP Rev. 6 Dear Kathrin, I believe your proposal regarding the prevalence is ok, assuming it is clear that all the DoW has prevalence, not just the fragment of text that will become part of the governance description. Indeed, I believe it would be better if we say: The DOW prevails over the Collaboration Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt, where this governance model does not set up rules for the governance between the FI PPP Projects, the Collaboration agreement applies. Regarding your proposed changes regarding mediation, I don't understand why you are proposing something different than what we proposed after our PCC confcall on the matter. Regarding the other changes you propose, I'm fine with them. Indeed they are capturing what we proposed last time to David. Please clarify me the question on mediation so that I can forward this on behalf of FI-WARE. Opinions from others are of course welcome. Best regards, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es email: jhierro at tid.es twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator and Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 On 12/03/13 17:09, Schweppe, Kathrin wrote: Dear Juanjo, please find attached SAP's revision. There is still missing wording regarding the prevalence. I have inserted two sentences regarding the prevalence, which I think are matching a) the Commission's view regarding the prevalence of documents and b) the applicability of the Collaboration Agreement. If we do not include any clarification, this text is a fast track to breach the Collaboration Agreement. Please note, that David Kennedy did not take over the agreed wording from FI-Ware. He thinks the Project Coordinators and representatives should be only able to decide upon the which items should be on the agenda of the Steering Board rather than deciding the items themselves. This would make the decision power of the Steering Board pretty toothless. In S. 3.2. I included the same sentence as the mandate of the Steering Board Member. This should be consistent throughout the entire governance model. Furthermore, the choice of mediation should be the choice of the partners. Please note, that in the case of a dispute between the EC and a partner, the Grant Agreement foresees a dispute resolution via the competent court of Brussels. It might be worth to reconsider any wording regarding mediation as the EC, or better their Legal Department could consider the mediation sentences in conflict with the Grant Agreement. Thanks and best regards, ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhierro at tid.es Wed Mar 13 20:15:41 2013 From: jhierro at tid.es (Juanjo Hierro) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:15:41 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] Governance Model FI PPP Rev. 6 In-Reply-To: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E99A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> References: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E583@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <51407D5A.5090007@tid.es> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CF9E99A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Message-ID: <5140D05D.8070903@tid.es> Dear Kathrin, Response between lines ... On 13/03/13 17:04, Schweppe, Kathrin wrote: Dear Juanjo, Your wording would explicitly invalidate the entire 12 pages of the entire governance model of the Collaboration Agreement by explicitly excluding that ? Maybe that was unintentional, either way, this is inacceptable. I cannot see how you can support your statement because of the wording I propose ... Let me elaborate on what I intended to fix with my wording and, if you can come with a better proposal, I would be happy to accept it. Your proposed wording was: The DOW prevails over the Collaboration Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt, where this governance model does not set up rules for the work between the FI PPP Project, the Collaboration agreement applies I clearly support the first sentence which is pretty clear. My problem was with the second sentence. My problem is that I believe that some people may interpret that second sentence as "for anything which is not described in this text for the governance model but is described in the Collaboration Agreement, the Collaboration Agreement applies". In other words, I don't want this sentence as to be interpreted like "This is the only part of the DoW where the DoW will prevail over the Collaboration Agreement". It should be clear that other parts of the DoW (not just this text about the governance model) prevail over what is said in the Collaboration Agreement. When you use the term "work" in the second sentence, work means everything not just governance. An alternative wording that I believe keeps the spirit of what you intend and also solves my concern would be: The DOW prevails over the Collaboration Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt, for those matters about which the DoW, including this governance model, set up rules for the work between the FI PPP Projects, the DoW prevails, otherwise the Collaboration Agreement applies. The proposed model is insufficient to regulate the entire governance. It is missing really essential rules for governance between the projects, e.g. the responsibilities of each FI PPP participants, rules for voting and composition of Boards etc. I do not think, it is wise to get rid of all of those rules, esp. those who are undisputed, with your wording. I understand the goal here more as some fine tuning of the governance model and not throwing the entire governance model away. I just want to make it clear that the rule "The DOW prevails over the Collaboration Agreement" applies for everything in the DoW, not just the text about the governance model. As I have just said, if you find a better wording that cover that concerns, please propose. I thought a while about the wording you used regarding mediation. First, I thought it was ok, taking into account the role of the EC foreseen in Rev. 3. However, thinking and analyzing it once more with a changed role of the EC addressing the anti-trust law issues on the EIB, it appeared to me, that a dispute with the EC could appear under this governance model. Dispute resolution with the EC in a FP 7 project is regulated in the Core Grant Agreement S. 9 and with mediation regarding the Governance model for the EIB. The Grant Agreement says clearly that dispute resolution is before the competent court of Brussels without any possibility of mediation with the EC. Having these rules in mind, I doubt, that the EC is accepting mediation on matters of the EIB and they will regard the wording, in so far as it is binding the EC, as invalid. As my proposed wording is emphasizing the choice of the partners regarding mediation, meaning in essence the same as the old wording, it avoids confusion regarding the disputes with the EC. Honestly, I don't think we were trying (nor should try) to cover disputes with the EC. We were trying to resolve dispute between projects. Therefore, my wording (which was based on what we sent to the EC several days ago) fits well. I also tried to accommodate IBM's comments because they object to talk about "professional mediation" which you introduced here. Best regards, -- Juanjo Thanks for your understanding, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Juanjo Hierro [mailto:jhierro at tid.es] Sent: Mittwoch, 13. M?rz 2013 14:22 To: Schweppe, Kathrin Cc: 'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu) (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu); fiware-ga at lists.fi-ware.eu; Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; 'fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu) Subject: Re: Governance Model FI PPP Rev. 6 Dear Kathrin, I believe your proposal regarding the prevalence is ok, assuming it is clear that all the DoW has prevalence, not just the fragment of text that will become part of the governance description. Indeed, I believe it would be better if we say: The DOW prevails over the Collaboration Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt, where this governance model does not set up rules for the governance between the FI PPP Projects, the Collaboration agreement applies. Regarding your proposed changes regarding mediation, I don't understand why you are proposing something different than what we proposed after our PCC confcall on the matter. Regarding the other changes you propose, I'm fine with them. Indeed they are capturing what we proposed last time to David. Please clarify me the question on mediation so that I can forward this on behalf of FI-WARE. Opinions from others are of course welcome. Best regards, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es email: jhierro at tid.es twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator and Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 On 12/03/13 17:09, Schweppe, Kathrin wrote: Dear Juanjo, please find attached SAP's revision. There is still missing wording regarding the prevalence. I have inserted two sentences regarding the prevalence, which I think are matching a) the Commission's view regarding the prevalence of documents and b) the applicability of the Collaboration Agreement. If we do not include any clarification, this text is a fast track to breach the Collaboration Agreement. Please note, that David Kennedy did not take over the agreed wording from FI-Ware. He thinks the Project Coordinators and representatives should be only able to decide upon the which items should be on the agenda of the Steering Board rather than deciding the items themselves. This would make the decision power of the Steering Board pretty toothless. In S. 3.2. I included the same sentence as the mandate of the Steering Board Member. This should be consistent throughout the entire governance model. Furthermore, the choice of mediation should be the choice of the partners. Please note, that in the case of a dispute between the EC and a partner, the Grant Agreement foresees a dispute resolution via the competent court of Brussels. It might be worth to reconsider any wording regarding mediation as the EC, or better their Legal Department could consider the mediation sentences in conflict with the Grant Agreement. Thanks and best regards, ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lgg at tid.es Thu Mar 14 12:12:19 2013 From: lgg at tid.es (LUIS GARCIA GARCIA) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:12:19 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Message-ID: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 11th March.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 23244 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 11th March.docx URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 11th March.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 21852 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 11th March.docx URL: From tara.macmahon at intel.com Thu Mar 14 13:24:45 2013 From: tara.macmahon at intel.com (Macmahon, Tara) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:24:45 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: HI Luis Thanks you for your email. Unfortunately Intel will not be in a position to provide its comments by 20 March, but will provide its comments by close of business Weds 27 March. Best regards Tara From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:12 AM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ------------------------------------------------------------- Intel Ireland Limited (Branch) Collinstown Industrial Park, Leixlip, County Kildare, Ireland Registered Number: E902934 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Mon Mar 18 16:33:34 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:33:34 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] [Fiware-pcc] Fw: [Fiware-ga] Fwd: FI-PPP Phase 2 Fi-PPP Phase 2 Governance Version 7 !! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0193@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Dear Juanjo, I am happy to inform you, that SAP can accept the Version 7 of the Governance Model that now finally contains all of the combined feedback. From our perspective, no further iterations are necessary to discuss that document. Since we cannot accept Version 6 of the document (like IBM), please make sure that this version and not a DOW containing V6 is what is moving forward, as we otherwise will not be able to sign. Regardless of the DOW matter, we still believe that the entire exercise of trying to avoid to amend the Collaboration Agreement by placing clauses in the "new" DOWs is in the end completely insufficient for the program-level purposes of the FI-PPP. The reasons are the following: The DOW binds only the partners in each project. Partners, who will leave the FI PPP after phase I, will not be bound by new DOWs. For them, the EIB and the Project Chair do not exist and will not exist. They will and can ignore completely any recommendation, the EIB makes or any other new provision of the amended DOWs tries to establish at program level. Thus this approach cannot improve anything in regard to results from Phase 1 of the FI-PPP compared to the status quo. While one could assume this as completely theoretical case, it in essence would assume that the Phase II projects in no way build upon the Phase I Projects, which if true were an even bigger failure of the overall program. If any of the new constructs introduced through the new DOWs (i.e. the EIB) tries to recommend to partners in a Phase II project to consider or use the Background of a Phase I Partner who left after Phase I of the FI PPP, the Phase I Partner is not bound to even consider the recommendation of the EIB (while the existing Collaboration Agreement covers their obligations, the new DOW amendments are powerless to provide any benefits to the Phase 2 participants). Further please note, that it is impossible for partners outside of one project to take a look into the DOW of another project. Therefore, the others are not able to control that in all DOW are the same regulations regarding the inter-project work are established. While we of course take this to be true in good confidence, there is no actual way of checking it. The Collaboration Agreement was concluded in Phase I to exactly cover this inter-phase, inter-project work, and adding to individual DOWs is not the way to achieve this. In contrast, the Collaboration Agreement is accessible to all FI PPP Partners and the European Commission as well. Therefore, we assume that the preparation of an Amendment of the Collaboration Agreement containing this governance model from the DOW is necessary. The legal uncertainty caused by this mismatch will make it difficult without an Amendment of the Collaboration Agreement in place and may make it impossible for SAP to sign up for such extended DOWs. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. _______________________________ From: fiware-pcc-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-pcc-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Yaron Wolfsthal Sent: Montag, 18. M?rz 2013 08:17 To: jhierro at tid.es Cc: Galit Leider; Suzanne Erez; fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-ga at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-pcc] Fw: [Fiware-ga] Fwd: FI-PPP Phase 2 Fi-PPP Phase 2 Governance Version 7 !! Dear Juanjo, This version is agreeable by IBM. Thank you for coordinating this important multi-party negotiation. Best Regards Yaron ----- Forwarded by Yaron Wolfsthal/Haifa/IBM on 16/03/2013 05:12 PM ----- From: Juanjo Hierro > To: "fiware-ga at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, "fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Date: 16/03/2013 04:28 PM Subject: [Fiware-ga] Fwd: FI-PPP Phase 2 Fi-PPP Phase 2 Governance Version 7 !! Sent by: fiware-ga-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ________________________________ Dear all, As anticipated, here you have a final version of the FI-PPP governance model where, imho, all remaining comments agreed at FI-WARE level have been taken into consideration. From Telefonica's perspective, this governance model is perfectly ok to us. Thursday 21 next week, there will be a FI-WARE PCC meeting where a final decision regarding the request to incorporate this governance model in the next DoW amendment will be taken. Unless we hear about any objection on your side, we will assume that incorporation of this version of the governance model as part of the next DoW amendment is ok for you. Have a nice weekend, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es email: jhierro at tid.es twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator and Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: FI-PPP Phase 2 Fi-PPP Phase 2 Governance Version 7 !! Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:39:36 +0000 From: David Kennedy To: FI-PPP-Phase-2-Contacts at future-internet.eu , Hierro Sureda Juan Jos? , lgg at tid.es , livdo at tid.es , Federico ?lvarez (federico.alvarez at upm.es) , Jacques Magen (InterInnov) (jmagen at interinnov.com) CC: burkhard.neidecker-lutz at sap.com , michael.stollberg at sap.com , rod.franklin at kuehne-nagel.com , Sjaak.Wolfert at wur.nl , elke.rupp at zv.fraunhofer.de , armin.dietrich at zv.fraunhofer.de , claudia.manderfeld at zv.fraunhofer.de , laura.schuetz at izb.fraunhofer.de , SUZANNE at il.ibm.com , Barbara.Gromer at neclab.eu , beatriz.aznar at atosorigin.com , Bjoern.Hohmann at telekom.de , GALITL at il.ibm.com , irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com , jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com , lucile.casenave at cea.fr , Mathilde.dubesset at technicolor.com , robert.sarrazin at orange-ftgroup.com , Sarrazin Robert , patricia.bedoui at thalesgroup.com , Jesus.Villasante at ec.europa.eu , Fatelnig Peter , Ragnar.Bergstrom at ec.europa.eu , 'Macmahon, Tara' , fabian.perpeet at zv.fraunhofer.de , kathrin.schweppe at sap.com HI all, Further to the last comments received from SAP and FI-Ware I have produced a version 7. Our time is up for this action and projects were supposed to have finalised their DOWs yesterday, I believe it addresses all the concerns presented and represents a good compromise on the original ambition to have highlights of the interactions between the projects captured in the DoW and not having direct conflict with the CA. I honestly don't know if the commission are still open to accept this version but please take this conversation with your project officers. Best wishes, David David Kennedy Director Eurescom GmbH Wieblinger Weg 19/4 D-69123 Heidelberg Germany Phone: +49 6221 989 122 Mobile: +49 171 286 1753 EURESCOM: Innovation through Collaboration EURESCOM - European Institute for Research and Strategic Studies in Telecommunications GmbH. Wieblinger Weg 19/4, 69123 Heidelberg, Germany. Gesch?ftsf?hrer (Director) David M. Kennedy. Vorsitzender der Gesellschafterversammlung (Chairman General Assembly) Paul Jenkins. Amtsgericht Mannheim HRB 334410. Deutsche Bank Heidelberg, IBAN: DE47 6727 0003 0017 1330 00, BIC (SWIFT-CODE): DEUTDE SM672. VAT Nr. DE 143457825 ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx_______________________________________________ Fiware-ga mailing list Fiware-ga at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-ga -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Tue Mar 19 23:51:31 2013 From: jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com (Heitto, Jonas (Jonas)) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 22:51:31 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0150D2@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Dear Luis, We have worked already quite some time on this notice. Yet, due to its complexity, more work and discussions are needed. Therefore, I ask you to please extend the deadline so that people may properly reflect on the language furnished. Thank you Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS * Tel +49 711 821 44561 * Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. ________________________________ From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Donnerstag, 14. M?rz 2013 12:12 To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From lgg at tid.es Wed Mar 20 07:51:57 2013 From: lgg at tid.es (LUIS GARCIA GARCIA) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 06:51:57 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0150D2@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0150D2@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Message-ID: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC4EB9@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear Jonas and all: As you and some other partners consider that we need to extend the term to review these documents, please consider next Wednesday 27th as last day for this review. Both documents are almost identical except for the explicit/implicit one. The review shouldn?t take too long. The Task Force has been working very hard to reach these two alternatives that are based on the drafts we were handling in the first stage of this discussion (in which we were all involved) , so there shouldn't be (and we don?t expect) substantive changes Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image002.png at 01CE253F.C9981E00] De: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Enviado el: martes, 19 de marzoss de 2013 23:52 Para: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Asunto: RE: FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, We have worked already quite some time on this notice. Yet, due to its complexity, more work and discussions are needed. Therefore, I ask you to please extend the deadline so that people may properly reflect on the language furnished. Thank you Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS * Tel +49 711 821 44561 * Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. ________________________________ From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Donnerstag, 14. M?rz 2013 12:12 To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From werner.mohr at nsn.com Wed Mar 20 13:12:55 2013 From: werner.mohr at nsn.com (Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:12:55 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NSN comments to FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 11th March.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 24490 bytes Desc: NSN comments to FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 11th March.docx URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NSN comments to FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 11th March.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 23097 bytes Desc: NSN comments to FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 11th March.docx URL: From tara.macmahon at intel.com Wed Mar 20 15:04:25 2013 From: tara.macmahon at intel.com (Macmahon, Tara) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:04:25 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: Hi all Please find Intel's comments on the explicit grant licence, which is the one which Intel will use. Just to clarify, Intel's understanding is that this licence will only be used for the Generic Enabler Open specifications (which will be published on the wiki) and not to the Generic Enabler software implementations (which will be published under the licence chosen by the publishing partner). Please let us know if our understanding is incorrect. Please note that I am out of office until Tuesday 9 April, but will deal with any emails around this when I return. Best regards Tara From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:13 PM To: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 11th March INTEL 16-March-2013.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 25671 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 11th March INTEL 16-March-2013.docx URL: -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Intel Ireland Limited (Branch) Collinstown Industrial Park, Leixlip, County Kildare, Ireland Registered Number: E902934 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Wed Mar 20 16:46:30 2013 From: irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com (Glueck-Otte, Irene) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:46:30 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.jpg at 01CE2589.E00A9420] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From werner.mohr at nsn.com Wed Mar 20 17:09:58 2013 From: werner.mohr at nsn.com (Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:09:58 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> , <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Message-ID: Gesendet von meinem Windows Phone ________________________________ Von: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene Gesendet: 20.03.2013 16:46 An: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Betreff: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version ?explicit? for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave ?on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions? in as it is, but to delete ?royalty-free, paid up? In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From lgg at tid.es Wed Mar 20 18:40:52 2013 From: lgg at tid.es (LUIS GARCIA GARCIA) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:40:52 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Message-ID: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image002.png at 01CE259A.20348FF0] De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: From jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Wed Mar 20 20:08:23 2013 From: jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com (Heitto, Jonas (Jonas)) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:08:23 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0155E3@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Dear Luis, First, thank you for extending the deadline for comments, which we can see are many. While it is possible to grant a FRAND license which is royalty free, it's a very different matter to prescribe the granting of FRAND licenses which are royalty free. In the first case the result of a particular negotiation was that FRAND equals royalty free. But if we prescribe ex ante that the license has to be FRAND and royalty free, there can be no negotiation on the financial terms. The compensation is effectively excluded, is therefore impossible, and not possible (as requested by the CA). I would like to second Siemens' proposal that the FRAND terms of the patent license be no further specified. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS * Tel +49 711 821 44561 * Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. ________________________________ From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 To: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image003.jpg at 01CE25A6.A9E3F1D0] De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: * The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. * Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4582 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: From jdps at tid.es Thu Mar 21 01:20:28 2013 From: jdps at tid.es (JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 00:20:28 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE: Amendment 3 signed by the Commission Message-ID: <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C71C0A3E6F@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear all. Please find enclosed the signed copy of the amendment 3 from the Commission. As you know, we are working to send the amendment 4 before reporting period with all the rest of pending changes. Thank you for your contribution. BR javier. ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE - Amendment 3 (signed by Commission).TIF Type: image/tiff Size: 138390 bytes Desc: FI-WARE - Amendment 3 (signed by Commission).TIF URL: From irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Thu Mar 21 09:27:21 2013 From: irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com (Glueck-Otte, Irene) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:27:21 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image002.png at 01CE2615.2E375530] De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: * The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. * Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image003.jpg at 01CE2615.2E375530] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From werner.mohr at nsn.com Thu Mar 21 10:14:24 2013 From: werner.mohr at nsn.com (Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:14:24 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE261C.DBBE61B0] De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: * The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. * Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com Thu Mar 21 10:56:14 2013 From: nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com (Nils-Ivar Tjernberg) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:56:14 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Message-ID: <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com ________________________________ From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:574455409 at 21032013-0156] De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: * The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. * Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE1E45.4935EA90] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From SUZANNE at il.ibm.com Thu Mar 21 14:32:00 2013 From: SUZANNE at il.ibm.com (Suzanne Erez) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 15:32:00 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> Message-ID: All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel:? 972-4-829-6069? Fax:? 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" , LUIS GARCIA GARCIA , "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" , Cc: "Amon, Peter" , "Riedl, Johannes" Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see ?the essence of the project? that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II?: II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version ?explicit? for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave ?on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions? in as it is, but to delete ?royalty-free, paid up? In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5330 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Thu Mar 21 15:23:13 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 14:23:13 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com? http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel:? 972-4-829-6069? Fax:? 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" , LUIS GARCIA GARCIA , "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" , Cc: "Amon, Peter" , "Riedl, Johannes" Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see ?the essence of the project? that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II?: II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version ?explicit? for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave ?on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions? in as it is, but to delete ?royalty-free, paid up? In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal From lgg at tid.es Thu Mar 21 15:46:38 2013 From: lgg at tid.es (LUIS GARCIA GARCIA) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 14:46:38 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Message-ID: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC6A58@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Nothing to add to Suzanne and Kathrin arguments. Regards Luis. -----Mensaje original----- De: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de Schweppe, Kathrin Enviado el: jueves, 21 de marzo de 2013 15:23 Para: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg CC: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Asunto: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" , LUIS GARCIA GARCIA , "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" , Cc: "Amon, Peter" , "Riedl, Johannes" Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see ?the essence of the project? that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II?: II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version ?explicit? for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave ?on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions? in as it is, but to delete ?royalty-free, paid up? In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Subject: FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:45:25 +0000 Size: 111375 URL: From jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Mon Mar 25 10:02:55 2013 From: jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com (Heitto, Jonas (Jonas)) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:02:55 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Message-ID: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" , LUIS GARCIA GARCIA , "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" , Cc: "Amon, Peter" , "Riedl, Johannes" Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SUZANNE at il.ibm.com Mon Mar 25 12:51:25 2013 From: SUZANNE at il.ibm.com (Suzanne Erez) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 13:51:25 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Message-ID: Jonas, Agreed. My analysis was however taken from this line and the reference to "develop and release implementations... on a RF basis". The Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. The entire section as follows: For avoidance of doubt, notwithstanding any terms to the contrary in this CA, the Background or Sideground, including any intellectual property rights therein, shall remain the property of the Party holding rights to that Background or Sideground and who contributed the Background or Sideground to the Consortium. Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3,the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. However, notwithstanding the above, Parties are not barred from requesting royalties for, or protecting their rights with respect to IPRs (e.g. but not limited to patents) in any such implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enablers Specifications, which are not directly disclosed by the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications or which are not inherent to, or cannot trivially be derived as valid implementation of part of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel:? 972-4-829-6069? Fax:? 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: "Heitto, Jonas (Jonas)" To: "Schweppe, Kathrin" , Suzanne Erez/Haifa/IBM at IBMIL, Nils-Ivar Tjernberg , Cc: "Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard" , "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" , "Riedl, Johannes" , "Amon, Peter" , "fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu" , "Calkins, Mary" Date: 25/03/2013 05:03 AM Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" , LUIS GARCIA GARCIA , "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" , Cc: "Amon, Peter" , "Riedl, Johannes" Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see ?the essence of the project? that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II?: II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version ?explicit? for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave ?on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions? in as it is, but to delete ?royalty-free, paid up? In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Mon Mar 25 13:04:29 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:04:29 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Mon Mar 25 17:53:43 2013 From: jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com (Heitto, Jonas (Jonas)) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:53:43 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Message-ID: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Dear Kathrin, Indeed there appears to be a certain difference in interpretation. Namely, I don' think the 2nd sentence says we have to waive some rights vis-?-vis third parties. Rather, the 2nd sentence means that anyone and everyone (if an implementer) is free to abstain from requesting a payment for the use of his implementations. It addresses the relation implementer (whether a party or a third party) - third party. In short, everybody is free to dispose over his goods as he deems right, not compelled to give them away for free. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 13:04 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Mon Mar 25 18:09:47 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 17:09:47 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Dear Jonas, dear all thank you very much for your interpretation, I agree with your analysis. The sentence does indeed say, that each party is free to abstain from asking for royalties in short, however, the sentence contains a little bit more. Our analysis and results bases in essence upon the following simplified sentence: For the sake of clarity (...)any other third party may, (...),develop (...) implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. >From SAP's point of view, if we allow the royalty-free development of an implementation of a Fi-Ware Generic Enabler Specification, we think, we need to allow as well the royalty-free use of all patents, which needs to be unavoidably infringed in order to develop such implementation. If you see the last section of the CA regarding the Generic Enabler Specs, it says clearly, that each party is free to request royalties for any IPR, which is not directly disclosed in the Specification. The royalty-free grant should cover those patents, which are essential for the development of the patent. For SAP, the second sentence contains some more information than you stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 17:54 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, Indeed there appears to be a certain difference in interpretation. Namely, I don' think the 2nd sentence says we have to waive some rights vis-?-vis third parties. Rather, the 2nd sentence means that anyone and everyone (if an implementer) is free to abstain from requesting a payment for the use of his implementations. It addresses the relation implementer (whether a party or a third party) - third party. In short, everybody is free to dispose over his goods as he deems right, not compelled to give them away for free. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 13:04 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Mon Mar 25 19:58:14 2013 From: jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com (Heitto, Jonas (Jonas)) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:58:14 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Message-ID: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A017768@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Dear Kathrin, all, the second sentence can be given different meanings depending on which words are emphasized (or omitted, as in your quote). If you focus on "develop" in connection with RF, then you might think this amounts to some implicit license to third parties to develop implementations. However it's difficult to understand this as an implicit patent license as no act of commercialization is mentioned. The other interpretation, which I find more convincing, focuses on "release" in connection with RF, which means that the third party can release his implementations on RF terms. Generally, we have to admit that the three paragraphs, result of collective drafting, are not quite free from ambiguity. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 18:10 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, dear all thank you very much for your interpretation, I agree with your analysis. The sentence does indeed say, that each party is free to abstain from asking for royalties in short, however, the sentence contains a little bit more. Our analysis and results bases in essence upon the following simplified sentence: For the sake of clarity (...)any other third party may, (...),develop (...) implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. >From SAP's point of view, if we allow the royalty-free development of an implementation of a Fi-Ware Generic Enabler Specification, we think, we need to allow as well the royalty-free use of all patents, which needs to be unavoidably infringed in order to develop such implementation. If you see the last section of the CA regarding the Generic Enabler Specs, it says clearly, that each party is free to request royalties for any IPR, which is not directly disclosed in the Specification. The royalty-free grant should cover those patents, which are essential for the development of the patent. For SAP, the second sentence contains some more information than you stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 17:54 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, Indeed there appears to be a certain difference in interpretation. Namely, I don' think the 2nd sentence says we have to waive some rights vis-?-vis third parties. Rather, the 2nd sentence means that anyone and everyone (if an implementer) is free to abstain from requesting a payment for the use of his implementations. It addresses the relation implementer (whether a party or a third party) - third party. In short, everybody is free to dispose over his goods as he deems right, not compelled to give them away for free. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 13:04 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhierro at tid.es Mon Mar 25 22:16:44 2013 From: jhierro at tid.es (JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:16:44 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Message-ID: <6B40FD77-405B-43F4-9534-6E64C39ABFE8@tid.es> Please bear in mind that the final text of the Legal Notice CANNOT make any reference to any agreement (grant, collaboration or consortium). The text must be standalone and meaningful for third parties users of the specifications. I understand that you are referring to the CA to back your analysis and argumentation, but I wanted to point the above just in case. BTW, the public and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE specifications cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Please don't waist your time discussing about it. Regards, Juanjo Enviado desde mi iPad El 25/03/2013, a las 07:51, "Suzanne Erez" escribi?: > Jonas, > > Agreed. > My analysis was however taken from this line and the reference to "develop > and release implementations... on a RF basis". The > > Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to > additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties > (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this > Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and > release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a > royalty-free basis. > > The entire section as follows: > > For avoidance of doubt, notwithstanding any terms to the contrary in this > CA, the Background or Sideground, including any intellectual property > rights > therein, shall remain the property of the Party holding rights to that > Background or Sideground and who contributed the Background or > Sideground to the Consortium. > > Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 > and Section 3.4.3.3,the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made > publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on > royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as > well as > any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement > where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain > Access > Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such > request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic > Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. > > For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted > in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not > obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE > Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than > open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- > Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 > below. > The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations > as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. > > However, notwithstanding the above, Parties are not barred from requesting > royalties for, or protecting their rights with respect to IPRs (e.g. but > not limited > to patents) in any such implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enablers > Specifications, which are not directly disclosed by the FI-WARE Generic > Enabler Specifications or which are not inherent to, or cannot trivially be > derived as valid implementation of part of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler > Specifications > > > Suzanne > > Suzanne Erez > Counsel, IPLaw, Israel > Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 > IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com > Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 > > You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret > Thatcher > > PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its > attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, > or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If > you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system > without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. > > > > From: "Heitto, Jonas (Jonas)" > To: "Schweppe, Kathrin" , Suzanne > Erez/Haifa/IBM at IBMIL, Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > , > Cc: "Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard" , > "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" > , "Riedl, Johannes" > , "Amon, Peter" > , "fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu" > , "Calkins, Mary" > > Date: 25/03/2013 05:03 AM > Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > > > > Dear all, > > If you read this sentence: > > Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 > and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be > made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause > 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. > > You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF > terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that > this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be > saved and possibly reproduced. > > However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents > reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the > spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take > before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. > Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. > These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF > terms. > > Regards > Jonas > > Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. > Senior IP Counsel > ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS > ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 > ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 > jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com > > Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG > Lorenzstra?e 10 > 70435 Stuttgart > > Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ > District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman > of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: > Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer > Fechner . Andreas Gehe > > Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain > confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to > Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any > action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all > copies of the transmission. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ > mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, > Kathrin > Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 > To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, > Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary > Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > > Dear all, > > SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the > patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use > for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember > however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon > royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. > > SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the > same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not > included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the > said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler > Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free > basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium > Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the > specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration > Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: > > "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem > The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain > defined around FI-WARE: > > Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description > > FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and > royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties > other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize > products that are in compliance with FI- WARE > GE specifications. > > The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and > allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware > GE Specification." > > You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the > specifications are then appropriate. > > We appreciate your input upon the matter. > > Best regards, > Kathrin > > Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. > Legal Counsel > Global Legal > SAP AG > Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 > 69190 Walldorf, Germany > T +49 6227 7-64369 > F +49 6227 78-54177 > E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com > http://www.sap.com > Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: > http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx > > Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige > vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich > erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine > Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte > benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen > Dank. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ > mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez > Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 > To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; > fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > > All, > > IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are > no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the > Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the > CA to make the licenses RF. > > We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for > our own implementations of said specifications. > > Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. > > In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, > > Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 > and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be > made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause > 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this > CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions > or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the > right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be > negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of > the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. > > For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted > in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not > obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE > Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open > and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- > Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 > below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference > implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. > > Suzanne > > Suzanne Erez > Counsel, IPLaw, Israel > Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 > IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com > Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 > > You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret > Thatcher > > PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its > attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, > or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If > you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system > without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. > > > > From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "ext > Glueck-Otte, Irene" , > LUIS > GARCIA GARCIA , "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" > , > Cc: "Amon, Peter" , "Riedl, Johannes" > > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu > > > > Dear all, > > Ericsson is also supporting this position. > > Best regards > > Nils-Ivar > > > > > > > > > > NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. > Swedish Authorized IP Attorney > > Ericsson AB > Licensing and Patent Development > Torshamnsgatan 21-23 > 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden > Phone +46 10 7136545 > Fax +46 10 7175695 > SMS/MMS +46 730311605 > nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com > www.ericsson.com > > > > From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ > mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner > (NSN - DE/Munich) > Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 > To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; > fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes > Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > > Dear Colleagues, > based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia > Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy > with the FRAND conditions. > Best regards, > Werner > Dr. Werner Mohr > Head of Research Alliances > Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH > CEF T&S IE Research Alliances > St. Martin Strasse 76 > 81541 Munich > Germany > Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 > Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 > Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 > e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com > Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH > Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel > Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich > Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 > From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM > To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); > fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA > Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > Dear Luis, > I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under > specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to > be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the > additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance > to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this > situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does > not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about > royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant > amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for > patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the > essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. > Mit freundlichen Gr??en > Irene Gl?ck-Otte > > Siemens AG > Corporate Legal and Compliance > CL CS CU CT&IP > Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 > 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland > Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 > Fax: +49 89 636-50441 > Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 > mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com > > Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; > Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus > Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, > Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, > Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, > HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 > Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 > An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); > fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA > Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > Dear Irene and all, > Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force > position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want > to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all > agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and > FRAND license at the same time. > Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable > Conditions in GA Annex II": > II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions > including possible financial terms taking into account the specific > circumstances of the request for access, for example the > actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access > is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use > envisaged; > As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a > mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just > to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. > Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this > project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium > Agreement. > I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point > Thanks and regards > Luis Garc?a Garc?a > Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department > Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 > Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal > DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta > Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n > 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) > > De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] > Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 > Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; > fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes > Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > Dear Luis, > we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version > "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under > FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. > However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. > Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory > conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" > In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses > royalty-free. > Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards > Irene Gl?ck-Otte > > Siemens AG > Corporate Legal and Compliance > CL CS CU CT&IP > Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 > 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland > Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 > Fax: +49 89 636-50441 > Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 > mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com > > Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; > Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus > Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, > Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, > Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, > HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 > Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ > mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner > (NSN - DE/Munich) > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 > An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > Dear Luis, > please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks > including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit > legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. > There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective > as follows: > ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit > grant. > ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case > assessment. > We are looking forward for a revised version. > Best regards, > Werner > Dr. Werner Mohr > Head of Research Alliances > Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH > CEF T&S IE Research Alliances > St. Martin Strasse 76 > 81541 Munich > Germany > Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 > Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 > Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 > e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com > Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH > Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel > Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich > Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 > From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ > mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA > GARCIA > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM > To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE > Dear all, > Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task > Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These > Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under > FI-WARE. > There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. > You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our > opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. > Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me > before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice > definitively finished during April. > Best regards > Luis Garc?a Garc?a > Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department > Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 > Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal > DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta > Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n > 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) > > > > Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar > nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace > situado m?s abajo. > This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and > receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: > http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx > > > Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar > nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace > situado m?s abajo. > This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and > receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: > http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: > image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-legal mailing list > Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-legal mailing list > Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-legal mailing list > Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu > https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx From kathrin.schweppe at sap.com Tue Mar 26 09:49:32 2013 From: kathrin.schweppe at sap.com (Schweppe, Kathrin) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 08:49:32 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A017768@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A017768@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Message-ID: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA23D2@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Dear Jonas, all, I do not think, that you can focus either only on 'release' or 'develop'. As the sentence contains both, we need to consider both. And I assume, you would agree, that for a company's non-commercial usage of a patent a license for such usage is necessary as well. Further, SAP assumes, that a royalty-free development is always a non-commercial act for private purposes in the sense of German Patent Law. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 19:58 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, all, the second sentence can be given different meanings depending on which words are emphasized (or omitted, as in your quote). If you focus on "develop" in connection with RF, then you might think this amounts to some implicit license to third parties to develop implementations. However it's difficult to understand this as an implicit patent license as no act of commercialization is mentioned. The other interpretation, which I find more convincing, focuses on "release" in connection with RF, which means that the third party can release his implementations on RF terms. Generally, we have to admit that the three paragraphs, result of collective drafting, are not quite free from ambiguity. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 18:10 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, dear all thank you very much for your interpretation, I agree with your analysis. The sentence does indeed say, that each party is free to abstain from asking for royalties in short, however, the sentence contains a little bit more. Our analysis and results bases in essence upon the following simplified sentence: For the sake of clarity (...)any other third party may, (...),develop (...) implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. >From SAP's point of view, if we allow the royalty-free development of an implementation of a Fi-Ware Generic Enabler Specification, we think, we need to allow as well the royalty-free use of all patents, which needs to be unavoidably infringed in order to develop such implementation. If you see the last section of the CA regarding the Generic Enabler Specs, it says clearly, that each party is free to request royalties for any IPR, which is not directly disclosed in the Specification. The royalty-free grant should cover those patents, which are essential for the development of the patent. For SAP, the second sentence contains some more information than you stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 17:54 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, Indeed there appears to be a certain difference in interpretation. Namely, I don' think the 2nd sentence says we have to waive some rights vis-?-vis third parties. Rather, the 2nd sentence means that anyone and everyone (if an implementer) is free to abstain from requesting a payment for the use of his implementations. It addresses the relation implementer (whether a party or a third party) - third party. In short, everybody is free to dispose over his goods as he deems right, not compelled to give them away for free. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 13:04 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.sarrazin at orange.com Mon Mar 25 19:32:07 2013 From: robert.sarrazin at orange.com (robert.sarrazin at orange.com) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:32:07 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> Message-ID: <843DA8228A1BA74CA31FB4E111A5C462026E36D4@ftrdmel0.rd.francetelecom.fr> Dear Luis and all, With respect to the two draft legal notices, We have a clear preference for the notice with explicit patent grant, bearing in mind that the objective is that an user can effectively have access to the relevant terms and conditions of the license in a transparent manner, in line with EU guidelines and requirements . Concerning such legal notice and in order to (i) avoid a too broad interpretation of the definition of " Essential patent specifications " and of the license granted and (ii ) to give more legal certainty , please find attached some slight modifications in the attached text. With respect to the so called " implicit patent grant " we have serious doubts that this second legal notice indeed include an " implicit patent grant" as it is only mentioned a copyright license and it is clearly stated in such legal notice that "For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Section herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise ". Best regards De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de Schweppe, Kathrin Envoy? : lundi 25 mars 2013 18:10 ? : Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc : Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Objet : Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, dear all thank you very much for your interpretation, I agree with your analysis. The sentence does indeed say, that each party is free to abstain from asking for royalties in short, however, the sentence contains a little bit more. Our analysis and results bases in essence upon the following simplified sentence: For the sake of clarity (...)any other third party may, (...),develop (...) implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. >From SAP's point of view, if we allow the royalty-free development of an implementation of a Fi-Ware Generic Enabler Specification, we think, we need to allow as well the royalty-free use of all patents, which needs to be unavoidably infringed in order to develop such implementation. If you see the last section of the CA regarding the Generic Enabler Specs, it says clearly, that each party is free to request royalties for any IPR, which is not directly disclosed in the Specification. The royalty-free grant should cover those patents, which are essential for the development of the patent. For SAP, the second sentence contains some more information than you stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com ] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 17:54 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, Indeed there appears to be a certain difference in interpretation. Namely, I don' think the 2nd sentence says we have to waive some rights vis-?-vis third parties. Rather, the 2nd sentence means that anyone and everyone (if an implementer) is free to abstain from requesting a payment for the use of his implementations. It addresses the relation implementer (whether a party or a third party) - third party. In short, everybody is free to dispose over his goods as he deems right, not compelled to give them away for free. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com ] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 13:04 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com ] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu ; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu " >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com ] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es ] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com ] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu ] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 11th March FT comments.docx Type: application/octet-stream Size: 25090 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 11th March FT comments.docx URL: From irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Tue Mar 26 09:48:58 2013 From: irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com (Glueck-Otte, Irene) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:48:58 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A017768@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A017768@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Message-ID: <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB51384C@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> I tend to follow the interpretation of Heitto. In addition the CA of FI-WARE does not give any rights to third parties. It only gives rules for relationship between the parties. Although there might be a rule in it that might be in favor of third parties, we commonly can interprete the rule in a different way. For the moment I have the feeling that the majority of Parties wants to grant patent licenses only under FRAND conditions. We should be free to do so either by a common interpretation of the CA in that sense or - if necessary - by changing the CA. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) Gesendet: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 19:58 An: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, all, the second sentence can be given different meanings depending on which words are emphasized (or omitted, as in your quote). If you focus on "develop" in connection with RF, then you might think this amounts to some implicit license to third parties to develop implementations. However it's difficult to understand this as an implicit patent license as no act of commercialization is mentioned. The other interpretation, which I find more convincing, focuses on "release" in connection with RF, which means that the third party can release his implementations on RF terms. Generally, we have to admit that the three paragraphs, result of collective drafting, are not quite free from ambiguity. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 18:10 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, dear all thank you very much for your interpretation, I agree with your analysis. The sentence does indeed say, that each party is free to abstain from asking for royalties in short, however, the sentence contains a little bit more. Our analysis and results bases in essence upon the following simplified sentence: For the sake of clarity (...)any other third party may, (...),develop (...) implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. >From SAP's point of view, if we allow the royalty-free development of an implementation of a Fi-Ware Generic Enabler Specification, we think, we need to allow as well the royalty-free use of all patents, which needs to be unavoidably infringed in order to develop such implementation. If you see the last section of the CA regarding the Generic Enabler Specs, it says clearly, that each party is free to request royalties for any IPR, which is not directly disclosed in the Specification. The royalty-free grant should cover those patents, which are essential for the development of the patent. For SAP, the second sentence contains some more information than you stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 17:54 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, Indeed there appears to be a certain difference in interpretation. Namely, I don' think the 2nd sentence says we have to waive some rights vis-?-vis third parties. Rather, the 2nd sentence means that anyone and everyone (if an implementer) is free to abstain from requesting a payment for the use of his implementations. It addresses the relation implementer (whether a party or a third party) - third party. In short, everybody is free to dispose over his goods as he deems right, not compelled to give them away for free. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 13:04 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patricia.bedoui at thalesgroup.com Wed Mar 27 23:31:00 2013 From: patricia.bedoui at thalesgroup.com (BEDOUI Patricia) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:31:00 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB51384C@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A017768@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB51384C@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Message-ID: <27699_1364423466_51537329_27699_18217_1_7ac960aa-de8c-41d3-b647-cb53f7694a0e@THSONEA01HUB01P.one.grp> Dear All, >From Thales' point of view: The reading of the General Enabler Specification only needs a copyright license that shall be granted RF. But if the GES is covered by essential patents (to be defined more strictly as suggested by Robert from Orange), the software implementation of such GES requires a license on those essential patents. And the commitment to grant such license should be on FRAND terms (the reference to royalty-free to be deleted). There should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. The consortium agreement may be interpreted that way. The reference to an implicit patent license is strange for the so-called legal notice only includes a copyright license and expressly excludes any other grant of rights. We would also like to point out that as the legal notice should stand alone, provisions related to the law applicable and to the settlement of disputes (that would be the same as the ones in the consortium agreement ) should be added. Best regards, Patricia BEDOUI Legal Counsel Thales Communications & Security SAS 4, Avenue des Louvresses 92622 GENNEVILLIERS cedex Tel. : +33(0)1 46 13 34 30 Fax : +33(0)1 46 13 21 92 The present message is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. The information contained therein may be confidential or privileged and its disclosure or reproduction is strictly forbidden. If you have received this communication in error, please return it immediately to its sender and destroy it. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de Glueck-Otte, Irene Envoy? : mardi 26 mars 2013 09:49 ? : Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc : Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Objet : Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE I tend to follow the interpretation of Heitto. In addition the CA of FI-WARE does not give any rights to third parties. It only gives rules for relationship between the parties. Although there might be a rule in it that might be in favor of third parties, we commonly can interprete the rule in a different way. For the moment I have the feeling that the majority of Parties wants to grant patent licenses only under FRAND conditions. We should be free to do so either by a common interpretation of the CA in that sense or - if necessary - by changing the CA. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) Gesendet: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 19:58 An: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, all, the second sentence can be given different meanings depending on which words are emphasized (or omitted, as in your quote). If you focus on "develop" in connection with RF, then you might think this amounts to some implicit license to third parties to develop implementations. However it's difficult to understand this as an implicit patent license as no act of commercialization is mentioned. The other interpretation, which I find more convincing, focuses on "release" in connection with RF, which means that the third party can release his implementations on RF terms. Generally, we have to admit that the three paragraphs, result of collective drafting, are not quite free from ambiguity. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 18:10 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, dear all thank you very much for your interpretation, I agree with your analysis. The sentence does indeed say, that each party is free to abstain from asking for royalties in short, however, the sentence contains a little bit more. Our analysis and results bases in essence upon the following simplified sentence: For the sake of clarity (...)any other third party may, (...),develop (...) implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. >From SAP's point of view, if we allow the royalty-free development of an implementation of a Fi-Ware Generic Enabler Specification, we think, we need to allow as well the royalty-free use of all patents, which needs to be unavoidably infringed in order to develop such implementation. If you see the last section of the CA regarding the Generic Enabler Specs, it says clearly, that each party is free to request royalties for any IPR, which is not directly disclosed in the Specification. The royalty-free grant should cover those patents, which are essential for the development of the patent. For SAP, the second sentence contains some more information than you stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 17:54 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, Indeed there appears to be a certain difference in interpretation. Namely, I don' think the 2nd sentence says we have to waive some rights vis-?-vis third parties. Rather, the 2nd sentence means that anyone and everyone (if an implementer) is free to abstain from requesting a payment for the use of his implementations. It addresses the relation implementer (whether a party or a third party) - third party. In short, everybody is free to dispose over his goods as he deems right, not compelled to give them away for free. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 13:04 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx(See attached file: image001.png)(See attached file: image002.jpg) _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Mathilde.dubesset at technicolor.com Wed Mar 27 19:05:19 2013 From: Mathilde.dubesset at technicolor.com (Du Besset Mathilde) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:05:19 +0100 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB51384C@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC002E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5C97@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2071BCC5C5E@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB3E5D04@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <96DF528C766C4A4B8216EB6448A5E840051210@ESESSMB207.ericsson.se> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA0E1A@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A0170D0@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA216F@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A01766C@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <8648FE968D735E43BC8B686F7F51E4750CFA2315@DEWDFEMB12A.global.corp.sap> <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A017768@FR711WXCHMBA04.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <29312CB016E934488C4DB0BA722E848D28DB51384C@DEMCHP99E34MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Message-ID: Dear all, As raised by Robert Sarrazin from France Telecom, with respect to the "implicit patent grant ", Technicolor has serious doubts that this legal notice indeed include an " implicit patent grant" as it is only mentioned a copyright license and it is clearly stated in such legal notice that "For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Section herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise ". With respect to the explicit license, we fully agree that the copyright license under the specifications of the GE (i.e. the description of the GE and steps to obtain such GE ) shall be granted royalty free to any third parties. But in our opinion, should these specifications refer to the use of certain essential patents/ disclose certain essential patents, it does not mean that the use of such patents by the third parties in their implementations of these specifications shall follow the same financial rules as those applicable to the specifications. This is the reason why we request FRAND conditions for the license under such patents, as support by many partners. Moreover, we agree that the essential patent definition shall be reduced as much as possible to the patents for which no technically alternative exists to avoid infringement. In addition if no link exists between the CA and this legal notice, the applicable law and court shall be included in the license. With best regards Mathilde du Besset Legal counsel - Intellectual property [cid:image001.png at 01CE2B1D.C7A61780] 1 rue Jeanne d'Arc 92130 Issy-les-Moulineaux, France Tel: + 33 (0)1.41.86.51.72 mathilde.dubesset at technicolor.com [cid:image002.jpg at 01CE2B1D.C7A61780] Help preserve the color of our world - Think before you print. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de Glueck-Otte, Irene Envoy? : mardi 26 mars 2013 09:49 ? : Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc : Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Objet : Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE I tend to follow the interpretation of Heitto. In addition the CA of FI-WARE does not give any rights to third parties. It only gives rules for relationship between the parties. Although there might be a rule in it that might be in favor of third parties, we commonly can interprete the rule in a different way. For the moment I have the feeling that the majority of Parties wants to grant patent licenses only under FRAND conditions. We should be free to do so either by a common interpretation of the CA in that sense or - if necessary - by changing the CA. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) Gesendet: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 19:58 An: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, all, the second sentence can be given different meanings depending on which words are emphasized (or omitted, as in your quote). If you focus on "develop" in connection with RF, then you might think this amounts to some implicit license to third parties to develop implementations. However it's difficult to understand this as an implicit patent license as no act of commercialization is mentioned. The other interpretation, which I find more convincing, focuses on "release" in connection with RF, which means that the third party can release his implementations on RF terms. Generally, we have to admit that the three paragraphs, result of collective drafting, are not quite free from ambiguity. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 18:10 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, dear all thank you very much for your interpretation, I agree with your analysis. The sentence does indeed say, that each party is free to abstain from asking for royalties in short, however, the sentence contains a little bit more. Our analysis and results bases in essence upon the following simplified sentence: For the sake of clarity (...)any other third party may, (...),develop (...) implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. >From SAP's point of view, if we allow the royalty-free development of an implementation of a Fi-Ware Generic Enabler Specification, we think, we need to allow as well the royalty-free use of all patents, which needs to be unavoidably infringed in order to develop such implementation. If you see the last section of the CA regarding the Generic Enabler Specs, it says clearly, that each party is free to request royalties for any IPR, which is not directly disclosed in the Specification. The royalty-free grant should cover those patents, which are essential for the development of the patent. For SAP, the second sentence contains some more information than you stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 17:54 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Kathrin, Indeed there appears to be a certain difference in interpretation. Namely, I don' think the 2nd sentence says we have to waive some rights vis-?-vis third parties. Rather, the 2nd sentence means that anyone and everyone (if an implementer) is free to abstain from requesting a payment for the use of his implementations. It addresses the relation implementer (whether a party or a third party) - third party. In short, everybody is free to dispose over his goods as he deems right, not compelled to give them away for free. Regards Jonas ________________________________ From: Schweppe, Kathrin [mailto:kathrin.schweppe at sap.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 13:04 To: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas); Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Jonas, you can make of course your implementation of the GE Spec available with the patents including the implementation on whichever terms you deem appropriate. It is and it was never SAP's intention to force someone to make available their patents upon a royalty-free basis. Further, I completely agree with your analysis of the first sentence. However, in the second sentence of the wording, we allow other third parties to develop and release implementation of the FI-Ware Generic Enabler Specification on a royalty-free basis. "For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties(provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis." SAP understands this such, that we have to allow the third parties, so everyone outside of FI-Ware, esp. outside of the FI PPP, to develop and make available implementations of the respective Generic Enabler on royalty free terms. If we must allow third parties the royalty-free implementation of GEs, this must of course cover the patents, which will be unavoidably infringed by such implementations. This is, why SAP decided to include patent grant into the Legal Notice for the GE Spec. Therefore, we agree with Suzannes analysis. I would really appreciate it, if you could let me know, if this interpretation of the CA, which Alcatel signed, is completely different to yours. Thank you and best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. From: Heitto, Jonas (Jonas) [mailto:jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Montag, 25. M?rz 2013 10:03 To: Schweppe, Kathrin; Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, If you read this sentence: Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced. However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms. Regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS ** Tel +49 711 821 44561 ** Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 15:23 To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement. SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW: "B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE: Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications. The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification." You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate. We appreciate your input upon the matter. Best regards, Kathrin Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M. Legal Counsel Global Legal SAP AG Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 69190 Walldorf, Germany T +49 6227 7-64369 F +49 6227 78-54177 E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com http://www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Gesch?ftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, eine Vervielf?ltigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdr?cklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene E-Mail. Vielen Dank. -----Original Message----- From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez Sent: Donnerstag, 21. M?rz 2013 14:32 To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE All, IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the CA to make the licenses RF. We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for our own implementations of said specifications. Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly. In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1, Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis. For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non- Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion. Suzanne Suzanne Erez Counsel, IPLaw, Israel Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160 IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521 You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail. From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg > To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" >, "ext Glueck-Otte, Irene" >, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA >, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" >, Cc: "Amon, Peter" >, "Riedl, Johannes" > Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Ericsson is also supporting this position. Best regards Nils-Ivar NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc. Swedish Authorized IP Attorney Ericsson AB Licensing and Patent Development Torshamnsgatan 21-23 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden Phone +46 10 7136545 Fax +46 10 7175695 SMS/MMS +46 730311605 nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com www.ericsson.com From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14 To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Colleagues, based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy with the FRAND conditions. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 18:41 An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Irene and all, Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and FRAND license at the same time. Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable Conditions in GA Annex II": II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions including possible financial terms taking into account the specific circumstances of the request for access, for example the actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use envisaged; As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant. Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement. I hope I?ve clarified this legal notice key point Thanks and regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com] Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47 Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version "explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time. However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same. Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up" In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses royalty-free. Mit freundlichen Gr??en/Kind regards Irene Gl?ck-Otte Siemens AG Corporate Legal and Compliance CL CS CU CT&IP Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 M?nchen, Deutschland Tel.: +49 89 636-33276 Fax: +49 89 636-50441 Mobil: +49 1522 2797796 mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand: Peter L?scher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael S??; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und M?nchen, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, M?nchen, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322 Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich) Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. M?rz 2013 13:13 An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification. There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective as follows: ? The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit grant. ? Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case assessment. We are looking forward for a revised version. Best regards, Werner Dr. Werner Mohr Head of Research Alliances Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH CEF T&S IE Research Alliances St. Martin Strasse 76 81541 Munich Germany Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117 Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121 Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788 e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH Gesch?ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen / Registered office: Munich Registergericht: M?nchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under FI-WARE. There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant. You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA. Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice definitively finished during April. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. 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