Dear all,
If you read this sentence:
Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3 and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause 4.4.1) on royalty free terms.
You will notice that the focus on making the specs publicly available on RF terms i.e. the download of the spec is not subject to payment. I agree that this necessarily includes a copyright license, since the specs need to be saved and possibly reproduced.
However, in my view it certainly does not mandate RF licensing of patents reading on any implementation of the spec. The download and reading of the spec do not infringe anybody's patents. There are many more steps to take before you can make, use, offer or sell a product or operate a process. Only these acts infringe patents and necessitate granting a patent license. These licenses should be available if needed, but not at mandatory RF terms.
Regards
Jonas
Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M.
Senior IP Counsel
ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS
** Tel +49 711 821 44561
** Fax +49 711 821 44587
jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com
Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG
Lorenzstraße 10
70435 Stuttgart
Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-Jörg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe
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-----Original Message-----
From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Schweppe, Kathrin
Sent: Donnerstag, 21. März 2013 15:23
To: Suzanne Erez; Nils-Ivar Tjernberg
Cc: Neidecker-Lutz, Burkhard; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu; Calkins, Mary
Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
Dear all,
SAP agrees with IBM. We would as well prefer to ask for royalties for the patents disclosed in the Generic Enabler Specification and necessary to use for the implementations of the Generic Enabler Specification. I do remember however, that all partners agreed 2 years ago to include such license upon royalty-free conditions into the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement.
SAP understands the CA language copies so nicely by Suzanne from IBM in the same way as IBM does. We can request royalties for features, which are not included into the Specification directly or our own Implementation of the said Specification, however it was clear, that the Generic Enabler Specification should open and accessible to third parties on royalty-free basis. You find this statement not only in the Fi-Ware Consortium Agreement, but as well in several parts of the DOW of Fi-Ware and the specific description of FI-Ware Generic Enablers in the Collaboration Agreement, please draw your attention to B.1.1.2.4 of the DOW:
"B.1.1.2.4 Business Ecosystem
The following table describe the different roles in the overall value chain defined around FI-WARE:
Table 2. Roles in the value chain defined around FI-WARE Role Description
FI-WARE GE Provider Any implementer of a FI-WARE GE. The open and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE specifications will allow parties other than partners in the FI-WARE consortium to develop and commercialize products that are in compliance with FI- WARE GE specifications.
The DOW states as well that the specification will be royalty free and allow third parties develop and commercialize products based on the Fi-Ware GE Specification."
You may decide by yourselves, if royalties for patents disclosed by the specifications are then appropriate.
We appreciate your input upon the matter.
Best regards,
Kathrin
Kathrin Schweppe, LL.M.
Legal Counsel
Global Legal
SAP AG
Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16
69190 Walldorf, Germany
T +49 6227 7-64369
F +49 6227 78-54177
E kathrin.schweppe at sap.com
http://www.sap.com
Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements:
http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx
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-----Original Message-----
From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Erez
Sent: Donnerstag, 21. März 2013 14:32
To: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg
Cc: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; Riedl, Johannes; Amon, Peter; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu
Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
All,
IBM agrees with all - IBM would be pleased to ask for FRAND terms that are
no RF for licenses that cover the distribution and implementation of the
Generic Enabler Specification. However, we all agreed 2 years ago in the
CA to make the licenses RF.
We can however ask royalties for features not in the specifications, or for
our own implementations of said specifications.
Please correct me if I understand the CA incorrectly.
In the Fi-Ware CA, section 4.1,
Notwithstanding any conflicting terms in this CA, but subject to Annex 3
and Section 3.4.3.3, the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications will be
made publically available (upon publication in accordance with clause
4.4.1) on royalty free terms. For the sake of clarity, Parties signing this
CA as well as any other third party may, subject to additional conditions
or agreement where requested by a Party/ the Parties (provided that the
right to obtain Access Rights granted under this Agreement must not be
negatively affected by such request),develop and release implementations of
the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications on a royalty-free basis.
For further sake of clarity, Parties including those Parties that assisted
in generating the FI-WARE Generic Enabler Specifications may, but are not
obliged to, develop implementations or reference implementations of FIWARE
Generic Enabler Specifications and request licensing terms other than open
and royalty free for such, e.g. under FRAND (Fair, Reasonable and Non-
Discriminatory) terms subject to the provisions of Article 4.2.3 and 4.2.4
below. The Parties may release their implementations or reference
implementations as open source or closed source, at their sole discretion.
Suzanne
Suzanne Erez
Counsel, IPLaw, Israel
Associate PPM, PPM 150, 160
IBM Haifa, Israel suzanne at il.ibm.com
Tel: 972-4-829-6069 Fax: 972-4-829-6521
You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret
Thatcher
PREPARED BY IBM ATTORNEY / PRIVILEGE REVIEW REQUIRED This e-mail and its
attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential,
or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If
you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system
without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply e-mail.
From: Nils-Ivar Tjernberg <nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com>
To: "Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich)" <werner.mohr at nsn.com>, "ext
Glueck-Otte, Irene" <irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com>, LUIS
GARCIA GARCIA <lgg at tid.es>, "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu"
<fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu>,
Cc: "Amon, Peter" <p.amon at siemens.com>, "Riedl, Johannes"
<johannes.riedl at siemens.com>
Date: 21/03/2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu
Dear all,
Ericsson is also supporting this position.
Best regards
Nils-Ivar
NILS-IVAR TJERNBERG M.Sc.
Swedish Authorized IP Attorney
Ericsson AB
Licensing and Patent Development
Torshamnsgatan 21-23
164 80 Stockholm, Sweden
Phone +46 10 7136545
Fax +46 10 7175695
SMS/MMS +46 730311605
nils-ivar.tjernberg at ericsson.com
www.ericsson.com
From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [
mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mohr, Werner
(NSN - DE/Munich)
Sent: den 21 mars 2013 10:14
To: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene; LUIS GARCIA GARCIA;
fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu
Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes
Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
Dear Colleagues,
based on the e-mail discussion we reviewed the document again. Nokia
Siemens Networks is supporting the Siemens position and would also be happy
with the FRAND conditions.
Best regards,
Werner
Dr. Werner Mohr
Head of Research Alliances
Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH
CEF T&S IE Research Alliances
St. Martin Strasse 76
81541 Munich
Germany
Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117
Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121
Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788
e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com
Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH
Geschäftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München / Registered office: Munich
Registergericht: München / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081
From: ext Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:27 AM
To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich);
fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu
Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA
Subject: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
Dear Luis,
I know quite well that FRAND-conditions might be royalty-free under
specific circumstances. Here however the fact that patent licenses have to
be royalty-free is implemented as a general rule. In this context the
additional mentioning of FRAND does not make any sense because the chance
to evaluate the situation and to fix a price in accordance with this
situation (which might be zero) is already blocked. The text as it is does
not make any sense. As far as I remember we had the discussion about
royalty-free patent licenses already some months ago and a significant
amount of partners have been against royalty-free patent licenses and for
patent licenses under FRAND conditions. To be honest I do not see "the
essence of the project" that requires mandatory royalty-free licenses.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Irene Glück-Otte
Siemens AG
Corporate Legal and Compliance
CL CS CU CT&IP
Otto-Hahn-Ring 6
81739 München, Deutschland
Tel.: +49 89 636-33276
Fax: +49 89 636-50441
Mobil: +49 1522 2797796
mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com
Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme;
Vorstand: Peter Löscher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus
Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm,
Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael Süß; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und München,
Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, München,
HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322
Von: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA [mailto:lgg at tid.es]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. März 2013 18:41
An: Glueck-Otte, Irene; Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich);
fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu
Cc: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes; JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA
Betreff: RE: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
Dear Irene and all,
Thanks for you inputs. In order to clarify the Legal Notice Task Force
position about the point (FRAND Vs RF) in the explicit grant model, we want
to point out that this question was widely discussed among us and we all
agreed that both terms are not incompatible at all. You can grant a RF and
FRAND license at the same time.
Please look at the Grant Agreement definition of Fair and Reasonable
Conditions in GA Annex II":
II.1.6. "fair and reasonable conditions" means appropriate conditions
including possible financial terms taking into account the specific
circumstances of the request for access, for example the
actual or potential value of the foreground or background to which access
is requested and/or the scope, duration or other characteristics of the use
envisaged;
As you may see Financial terms are configured as a possibility not as a
mandatory feature of a FRAND license. If we included RF and FRAND is just
to emphasize that all these conditions must be in the license grant.
Royalty free character of this Legal Notice is in the essence of this
project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium
Agreement.
I hope I´ve clarified this legal notice key point
Thanks and regards
Luis García García
Asesoria Jurídica // Legal Department
Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666
Telefónica Investigación y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal
DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5ª planta
Ronda de la Comunicación s/n
28050-Madrid (España)
De: Glueck-Otte, Irene [mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com]
Enviado el: miércoles, 20 de marzo de 2013 16:47
Para: Mohr, Werner (NSN - DE/Munich); LUIS GARCIA GARCIA;
fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu
CC: Amon, Peter; Riedl, Johannes
Asunto: AW: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
Dear Luis,
we fully endorse the opinion of NSN that the actual text in the version
"explicit" for Patent licenses is inconsistent. A license can be under
FRAND-conditions or it can be royalty-free but not both at the same time.
However our consequences out of this inconsistency are not the same.
Our proposal is to leave "on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory
conditions" in as it is, but to delete "royalty-free, paid up"
In our view there should be no obligation to grant patent licenses
royalty-free.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Kind regards
Irene Glück-Otte
Siemens AG
Corporate Legal and Compliance
CL CS CU CT&IP
Otto-Hahn-Ring 6
81739 München, Deutschland
Tel.: +49 89 636-33276
Fax: +49 89 636-50441
Mobil: +49 1522 2797796
mailto:irene.glueck-otte at siemens.com
Siemens Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme;
Vorstand: Peter Löscher, Vorsitzender; Roland Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus
Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm,
Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael Süß; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin und München,
Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, München,
HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 23691322
Von: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [
mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] Im Auftrag von Mohr, Werner
(NSN - DE/Munich)
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. März 2013 13:13
An: ext LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu
Betreff: Re: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
Dear Luis,
please find attached the commented versions from Nokia Siemens Networks
including text changes to improve clarity on the explicit and the implicit
legal notice. There are some questions included for clarification.
There are two general comments from the Nokia Siemens Networks perspective
as follows:
· The NSN preference would be (always) to use the implicit
grant.
· Any use of the explicit patent grant would need case by case
assessment.
We are looking forward for a revised version.
Best regards,
Werner
Dr. Werner Mohr
Head of Research Alliances
Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH
CEF T&S IE Research Alliances
St. Martin Strasse 76
81541 Munich
Germany
Office phone: +49-89-5159-35117
Office fax: +49-89-5159-35121
Mobile phone: +49-171-3340 788
e-Mail: werner.mohr at nsn.com
Nokia Siemens Networks Management International GmbH
Geschäftsleitung / Board of Directors: Andreas Sauer, Ralf Dietzel
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München / Registered office: Munich
Registergericht: München / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 198081
From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [
mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of ext LUIS GARCIA
GARCIA
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:12 PM
To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu
Subject: [Fiware-legal] FIWARE LEGAL NOTICE
Dear all,
Find enclosed the two legal notices that have been produced by the Task
Force Working Group launched by the FI-WARE PCC for this purpose. These
Legal Notices will govern the FI-WARE specifications generated under
FI-WARE.
There are two models: with explicit patent grant and implicit patent grant.
You may choose the one you prefer for your Specifications as both, in our
opinion, perfectly fits with the provisions of the FI-WARE CA and GA.
Notwithstanding, if you have any question or remarks, send them to me
before next 20th March, as we must have this FIWARE Legal Notice
definitively finished during April.
Best regards
Luis García García
Asesoria Jurídica // Legal Department
Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666
Telefónica Investigación y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal
DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 5ª planta
Ronda de la Comunicación s/n
28050-Madrid (España)
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