From lgg at tid.es Thu May 16 15:48:45 2013 From: lgg at tid.es (LUIS GARCIA GARCIA) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 13:48:45 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Message-ID: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE523D.F20F1340] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 16th Maydocx.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 25614 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 16th Maydocx.docx URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 16th May.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 28980 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 16th May.docx URL: From jhierro at tid.es Thu May 16 18:45:53 2013 From: jhierro at tid.es (Juanjo Hierro) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 18:45:53 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <51950D41.3000708@tid.es> On 16/05/13 15:48, LUIS GARCIA GARCIA wrote: Dear all, ... No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Hi all, I would like to emphasize this last statement by Luis. Actually, breaking the public and royalty-free nature of FI-WARE GE Open Specifications would be considered a infringement of the FI-WARE contract (Grant Agreement) and would certainly be considered in the approval or rejection of reported costs. Note that neither Luis nor me intend to respond any message from anyone questioning this. It's absolute out of questioning and we will not spend any more minute on the matter and we wouldn't recommend that you spend any minute either. I'm pretty sure that the technical and business managers from every partner are fully aware of this very basic principle in FI-WARE, so if you still have some doubts, you just need to double-check with them. I also want to emphasize that the deadline of Wednesday 22nd is absolutely final. We intend to close the wording of the Legal Notices at that date unless someone finds a big mistake/issue everyone would agree that has to be fixed (honestly, I can't guess which). Actually, we believe that the current draft is perfectly valid and complete. Of course, the path towards absolute perfection never ends, but precisely because we will be able to evolve contents of the Legal Notice in the future if found necessary, it's time to close NOW a first valid version of the Legal Notices that we can attach to the FI-WARE Open Specifications. Immediately afterwards, we will provide instructions as to attach one of the two defined Legal Notices to each of the FI-WARE GE Open Specifications. We will then define a deadline for binding the FI-WARE GE Open Specifications to any of the defined Legal Notices after which we will report to the EC what are the FI-WARE GE Open Specifications for which such request has not been met. The corresponding Copyright Holders will have to measure the consequences of not complying this request by the coordinator and the subsequent reaction by the EC. Best regards, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es email: jhierro at tid.es twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator and Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdps at tid.es Sat May 18 09:23:09 2013 From: jdps at tid.es (JAVIER DE PEDRO SANCHEZ) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 07:23:09 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE: Updated DoW (Amendment 4) - Approved by Commission Message-ID: <77A22C1085494D48B4018F06A40DB2C72FA2F760@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear all We have received the official approval of the updated DoW (please find enclosed the URL). DoW (part B): http://forge.fi-ware.eu/docman/view.php/27/2345/FI-WARE-DoW-Amendment4+-+v3+FINAL+%28version_date-13-05-16+CLEAR%29.docx Changes: http://forge.fi-ware.eu/docman/view.php/27/2346/FI-WARE+effort-budget-funding+-+Amendment+4+v33+%28FINAL%29.xlsx We are going to updated NEF accordingly and send all the documentation to the Commission. Thank you very much for your contribution and support. BR Javier. ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.sarrazin at orange.com Tue May 21 15:11:10 2013 From: robert.sarrazin at orange.com (robert.sarrazin at orange.com) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 15:11:10 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <32285_1369141877_519B7275_32285_4294_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522F505@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> Dear Luis, Thank you Luis for your efforts and for your new proposal. However as pointed out earlier, with respect to the so called " implicit patent grant " we have serious doubts that this legal notice might indeed include any " implicit patent grant" as only a copyright license is defined and it is clearly stated in such legal notice that "For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Section herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise ". Therefore we do not support the use of such notice, bearing in mind that the objective is that an user can effectively have access to the relevant terms and conditions of the license in a transparent manner, in line with EU guidelines and requirements. - Concerning the notice with "explicit patent grant", we propose to modify the definition of " Necessarily infringed " in the definition of " Essential patents specifications " as follows : "Necessarily infringed" shall mean that no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. " as we do believe that we need to avoid a too broad interpretation of the definition of " Essential patents specifications " and that the terms " no commercially reasonable alternative " doesn't give any legal certainty and are open to dispute. Thank you for your understanding Best regards De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 16 mai 2013 15:49 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE5635.6D1AC750] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From fabian.perpeet at zv.fraunhofer.de Tue May 21 19:04:25 2013 From: fabian.perpeet at zv.fraunhofer.de (fabian.perpeet at zv.fraunhofer.de) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:04:25 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: Dear all, please find my comments marked in the attachments - best regards Fabian Perpeet Fraunhofer Gesellschaft e. V. Legal Affairs and Contracts phone: +49 2241 - 142314 fax: +49 2241 - 142170 From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 3:49 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE5656.029CF4E0] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 21-05-13.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 26618 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 21-05-13.docx URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 21-05-13.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 30588 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 21-05-13.docx URL: From jhierro at tid.es Wed May 22 08:17:55 2013 From: jhierro at tid.es (Juanjo Hierro) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:17:55 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <32285_1369141877_519B7275_32285_4294_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522F505@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <32285_1369141877_519B7275_32285_4294_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522F505@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: <519C6313.5020101@tid.es> On 21/05/13 15:11, robert.sarrazin at orange.com wrote: Dear Luis, Thank you Luis for your efforts and for your new proposal. However as pointed out earlier, with respect to the so called " implicit patent grant " we have serious doubts that this legal notice might indeed include any " implicit patent grant" as only a copyright license is defined and it is clearly stated in such legal notice that "For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Section herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise ". The implicit patent grant is given because of the wording marked in bold: " ... the Copyright Holders in this Specification hereby grant you, the individual or legal entity exercising permissions granted by this License, a fully-paid up, non-exclusive, nontransferable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty free (without the right to sublicense) license under its respective copyrights incorporated in the Specification ... to create and distribute ... software that is an implementation of this Specification." In my honest opinion, very clear. A possibility, though, is to re-title the section where this paragraph is present to be titled "Copyright and implicit patent license" in the case of the "implicit patent grant" legal notice. Note that it is up to Orange to go for the "explicit patent grant" license if things are still unclear to you. I can tell you that Telefonica will push for the "implicit patent grant" license in the Open Specifications they are copyright owners because, in our honest opinion, that is the Legal Notice that gives more clear grants to the potential implementors of the specs. In my opinion, if I would be a potential implementor of a FI-WARE GE Open Specifications, I would feel more safe implementing products in compliance with the FI-WARE GE Open Specifications that are associated to the "implicit patent grant" license. But that is, of course, my personal opinion. As for regard the statement that says: For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Section herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise I have proposed Luis to replace "Section" by "Legal Notice" to avoid misinterpretations: For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Legal Notice herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise We haven't been the only ones that noticed that we had to fix this, so we will fix it. BTW, this is something to be fixed both in the "implicit patent grant" Legal Notice and the "explicit patent grant" Legal Notice. Best regards, -- Juanjo ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tara.macmahon at intel.com Wed May 22 17:03:15 2013 From: tara.macmahon at intel.com (Macmahon, Tara) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 15:03:15 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: Dear Luis Thank you for your email. Unfortunately the IP attorney who has been working on this within Intel is out of office until next Wednesday (29 May). I note that there have been a number of changes to the explicit patent licence since Intel last reviewed this, and unfortunately I am unable to give Intel's feedback until the IP attorney returns. I will let you know if Intel can agree to the revised explicit patent licence by next Wednesday night. Apologies for any inconvenience which this delay may cause. Best regards Tara From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:49 PM To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE5705.DE496CD0] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ------------------------------------------------------------- Intel Ireland Limited (Branch) Collinstown Industrial Park, Leixlip, County Kildare, Ireland Registered Number: E902934 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From robert.sarrazin at orange.com Wed May 22 18:51:04 2013 From: robert.sarrazin at orange.com (robert.sarrazin at orange.com) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 18:51:04 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <519C6313.5020101@tid.es> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <32285_1369141877_519B7275_32285_4294_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522F505@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> <519C6313.5020101@tid.es> Message-ID: <29741_1369241469_519CF77D_29741_2139_10_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522FAF1@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> " Dear Juanjo and all Thank you for your e mail and to consider our arguments related to the " implicit patent grant" You propose to rename the heading of a paragraph as follows "Copyright and implicit patent license", but on the other hand the content of such paragraph states only a licence "under its respective copyrights incorporated in the Specification". Hence, there is no grant of any patent right in such paragraph, i.e. to make, have made, use, sell, import. So we do not think this solves the problem. In our opinion, the only notice which gives legal certainty is the legal Notice with explicit patent grant (with the modification we proposed - see our previous e-mail) and therefore it is safer for a potential implementer because the scope of the license related to patents is defined with precision in this case. Therefore we have a strong preference for the explicit patent grant, because a so called implicit patent grant is really risky in our opinion both for implementers and patents holders. Moreover we propose that the acceptance of the license should be executed by clicking on a download button. So, something along the following lines could be considered, as an alternative, in the legal notice with explicit patent grant , provided the definition of Essential Patent be adopted as proposed earlier: 2. Copyright and Essential Patent rights License The IPR Holders in this Specification hereby grant you, the individual or legal entity exercising permissions granted by this License by clicking on your acceptance of all of the terms and conditions below, a fully-paid up, non-exclusive, nontransferable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty free (without the right to sublicense) license under their respective copyrights and Essential Patent rights incorporated in the Specification, to copy this Specification, and to make, have made, sell, import and use a software implementation fully compliant with this Specification. IPR Holders: Intellectual Property Rights Holders of this FI-WARE Open Specification are the Party or Parties identified as the copyright / Essential patent owners on the wiki page of this open specification Specification Essential Patent: "Specification Essential Patents" shall mean patents and patent applications, which are necessarily infringed by an implementation compliant with the Specification and which are owned by any of the IPR Holders of this Specification . "Necessarily infringed" shall mean that no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. Best regards De : SARRAZIN Robert SG/DJ Envoy? : mercredi 22 mai 2013 18:19 ? : RAES Serge OLNC/OLPS Objet : RE: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de Juanjo Hierro Envoy? : mercredi 22 mai 2013 08:18 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE On 21/05/13 15:11, robert.sarrazin at orange.com wrote: Dear Luis, Thank you Luis for your efforts and for your new proposal. However as pointed out earlier, with respect to the so called " implicit patent grant " we have serious doubts that this legal notice might indeed include any " implicit patent grant" as only a copyright license is defined and it is clearly stated in such legal notice that "For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Section herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise ". The implicit patent grant is given because of the wording marked in bold: " ... the Copyright Holders in this Specification hereby grant you, the individual or legal entity exercising permissions granted by this License, a fully-paid up, non-exclusive, nontransferable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty free (without the right to sublicense) license under its respective copyrights incorporated in the Specification ... to create and distribute ... software that is an implementation of this Specification." In my honest opinion, very clear. A possibility, though, is to re-title the section where this paragraph is present to be titled "Copyright and implicit patent license" in the case of the "implicit patent grant" legal notice. Note that it is up to Orange to go for the "explicit patent grant" license if things are still unclear to you. I can tell you that Telefonica will push for the "implicit patent grant" license in the Open Specifications they are copyright owners because, in our honest opinion, that is the Legal Notice that gives more clear grants to the potential implementors of the specs. In my opinion, if I would be a potential implementor of a FI-WARE GE Open Specifications, I would feel more safe implementing products in compliance with the FI-WARE GE Open Specifications that are associated to the "implicit patent grant" license. But that is, of course, my personal opinion. As for regard the statement that says: For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Section herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise I have proposed Luis to replace "Section" by "Legal Notice" to avoid misinterpretations: For avoidance of doubt, the rights granted are only those expressly stated in this Legal Notice herein. No other rights of any kind are granted by implication, estoppel, waiver or otherwise We haven't been the only ones that noticed that we had to fix this, so we will fix it. BTW, this is something to be fixed both in the "implicit patent grant" Legal Notice and the "explicit patent grant" Legal Notice. Best regards, -- Juanjo ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patricia.bedoui at thalesgroup.com Wed May 22 23:51:46 2013 From: patricia.bedoui at thalesgroup.com (BEDOUI Patricia) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 23:51:46 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <32285_1369141877_519B7275_32285_4294_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522F505@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <32285_1369141877_519B7275_32285_4294_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522F505@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: <12692_1369259509_519D3DF5_12692_2790_1_f2381623-e5f7-493e-852f-b46ab9793569@THSONEA01HUB04P.one.grp> Dear Luis and all, With respect to the discussion related to the implicit/explicit patent grant, we share the opinion of Orange expressed by Robert Sarrazin. Indeed, from a legal point of view, IPRs can only be used by an implementer if they have been expressly granted. Furthermore, to let each partner choose the legal notice it prefers -as suggested in your e.mail - does not seem to be workable. If the IPRs holders of a specification do not agree concerning the notice choice -as is already the case-, then we will be facing a deadlock. We also agree that the definition of "essential patents" should be strictly restricted to the patents for which no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. As expressed some weeks ago, we confirm that we are in favour of FRAND conditions for the license under patents. FRAND conditions do not exclude the possibility to grant patents royalty-free. We do not question the royalty-free condition when relating to the specification which only requires a copyright license. But the royalty-free condition should not apply automatically when it relates to the implementation of the specification requiring the use of patents. Finally, you have not taken into account our requests regarding the mentioning of the applicable law and the settlement of disputes which are common clauses in a contract. Best regards, Patricia BEDOUI Legal Counsel Thales Communications & Security SAS 4, Avenue des Louvresses 92622 GENNEVILLIERS cedex Tel. : +33(0)1 46 13 34 30 Fax : +33(0)1 46 13 21 92 The present message is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. The information contained therein may be confidential or privileged and its disclosure or reproduction is strictly forbidden. If you have received this communication in error, please return it immediately to its sender and destroy it. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 16 mai 2013 15:49 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE5738.9B516170] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From jhierro at tid.es Thu May 23 03:43:33 2013 From: jhierro at tid.es (Juanjo Hierro) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 03:43:33 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <12692_1369259509_519D3DF5_12692_2790_1_f2381623-e5f7-493e-852f-b46ab9793569@THSONEA01HUB04P.one.grp> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <32285_1369141877_519B7275_32285_4294_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522F505@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> <12692_1369259509_519D3DF5_12692_2790_1_f2381623-e5f7-493e-852f-b46ab9793569@THSONEA01HUB04P.one.grp> Message-ID: <519D7445.1020102@tid.es> On 22/05/13 23:51, BEDOUI Patricia wrote: Dear Luis and all, With respect to the discussion related to the implicit/explicit patent grant, we share the opinion of Orange expressed by Robert Sarrazin. Indeed, from a legal point of view, IPRs can only be used by an implementer if they have been expressly granted. Organizations like the OMG (Object Management Group) that are specialized in producing standard Open Specifications and have run such business more than 20 years incorporating a Legal Notice to the specifications they publish which follows the same approach as the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Are you telling me they have been wrong running such a business which has produced some of the most significant standards in the software industry in these past 20 years ? Sounds strange to me. The credentials of these kind of organizations, BTW, is why we, at Telefonica, are more in favour of the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Furthermore, to let each partner choose the legal notice it prefers -as suggested in your e.mail - does not seem to be workable. If the IPRs holders of a specification do not agree concerning the notice choice -as is already the case-, then we will be facing a deadlock. Obviously, the decision on Legal Notice should go per Open Specification, not by partner. Maybe my email was confusing. Apologies for that. What I tried to say is that each partner can go for pushing one notice or the other when negotiating which one to use in a given specification. Many of them are owned by a single organization or a few number of organizations, that's why it shouldn't be that problematic. knowing what are the Open Specifications and the companies/organizations behind each one, I believe this won't be that problematic in practice. Ideally, we should only have one Legal Notice and we battled for that at the beginning but this was found finally impossible after several months of discussions, so we found the compromise for defining these two for which, in practice, there wouldn't be so many conflicts. We also agree that the definition of "essential patents" should be strictly restricted to the patents for which no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. Ok As expressed some weeks ago, we confirm that we are in favour of FRAND conditions for the license under patents. FRAND conditions do not exclude the possibility to grant patents royalty-free. We do not question the royalty-free condition when relating to the specification which only requires a copyright license. But the royalty-free condition should not apply automatically when it relates to the implementation of the specification requiring the use of patents. As I said in my email some days ago. We won't run discussions on this any longer. It's pretty clear what the contract and the Consortium Agreement signed by all of us say in this respect. Also our position as coordinator with respect how we will handle this. Finally, you have not taken into account our requests regarding the mentioning of the applicable law and the settlement of disputes which are common clauses in a contract. Curiously enough, such clauses are not present in other open specifications like the ones published by OMG. In a first approach, I tend to believe this is probably because that may tend to put barriers to adoption of specifications, while those organizations tend to try lowering the barriers of adoption of their specifications (same as we should with our FI-WARE specifications). Aren't there international rules that are applied to define what would be the applicable laws and the procedures for settlement of disputes depending on the parties involved in a litigation ? I leave this question to Luis. Best regards, -- Juanjo Best regards, Patricia BEDOUI Legal Counsel Thales Communications & Security SAS 4, Avenue des Louvresses 92622 GENNEVILLIERS cedex Tel. : +33(0)1 46 13 34 30 Fax : +33(0)1 46 13 21 92 The present message is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. The information contained therein may be confidential or privileged and its disclosure or reproduction is strictly forbidden. If you have received this communication in error, please return it immediately to its sender and destroy it. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 16 mai 2013 15:49 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:part4.09060703.06090906 at tid.es] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: not available URL: From GALITL at il.ibm.com Thu May 23 09:57:05 2013 From: GALITL at il.ibm.com (Galit Leider) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:57:05 +0300 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: Dear Luis, Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, Suzanne Erez, the IP counsel who is working on this project within IBM is out of office until June, 2, without any email access. She will review the amendment and get back to you as soon as possible following her return. Apologies for any inconvenience which this delay may cause. Best regards, Galit Leider (LL.B ,MBA) Senior Contracts Professional Contracts Team Leader IBM Haifa Research Lab Tel: +972-4-8281300, mobile: +972-54-6976300 email: galitl at il.ibm.com This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply to the e-mail above. From: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA To: "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" , Date: 16/05/2013 04:49 PM Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final ?legal notice? Our intention is to consider these drafts as ?final? ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something ?essential? needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx[attachment "FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 16th Maydocx.docx" deleted by Galit Leider/Haifa/IBM] [attachment "FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 16th May.docx" deleted by Galit Leider/Haifa/IBM] _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal From lgg at tid.es Thu May 23 10:23:32 2013 From: lgg at tid.es (LUIS GARCIA GARCIA) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 08:23:32 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F64CFD7@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F653E75@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear Galit, dear all, Unfortunately we have no room for further discussions. In fact, we?re already late with this and we?re going to send you along this morning the definitive version with some additional explanation Suzanne gave us her approval to the implicit model and no substantive modification have been introduced in it so I?m sure that the final version will be acceptable for her. Best regards Luis. -----Mensaje original----- De: Galit Leider [mailto:GALITL at il.ibm.com] Enviado el: jueves, 23 de mayo de 2013 9:57 Para: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA CC: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Asunto: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis, Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, Suzanne Erez, the IP counsel who is working on this project within IBM is out of office until June, 2, without any email access. She will review the amendment and get back to you as soon as possible following her return. Apologies for any inconvenience which this delay may cause. Best regards, Galit Leider (LL.B ,MBA) Senior Contracts Professional Contracts Team Leader IBM Haifa Research Lab Tel: +972-4-8281300, mobile: +972-54-6976300 email: galitl at il.ibm.com This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain information that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client, solicitor-client or other privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your system without copying it and notify me of the misdirection by reply to the e-mail above. From: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA To: "fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu" , Date: 16/05/2013 04:49 PM Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Sent by: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final ?legal notice? Our intention is to consider these drafts as ?final? ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something ?essential? needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx[attachment "FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 16th Maydocx.docx" deleted by Galit Leider/Haifa/IBM] [attachment "FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 16th May.docx" deleted by Galit Leider/Haifa/IBM] _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx From lgg at tid.es Thu May 23 12:45:47 2013 From: lgg at tid.es (LUIS GARCIA GARCIA) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:45:47 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] RV: FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Message-ID: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F6541F6@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear all, Following Juanjo?s comments: 1,. About the "applicable law and settlement of dispute" question: from our perspective it?s preferable not include here a reference to the "applicable law or settlement of dispute" since the Copyright holder (s) vary from one Specification to another. We see no advantage in including a "neutral solution" (that could be "Belgium law and courts") and also do not consider that a section like this would work: Governing Law and Jurisdiction "You agree that all matters relating to the use of the "FI-WARE Open Specifications" shall be governed by the law the Copyright Holders determine. You agree and hereby submit to the exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue of the Courts the Copyright Holders decide, with respect to such matters." Further, no similar "legal notices" contains a specific section of "Applicable law and or Settlement of disputes" Please check, i.e.: http://www.omg.org/spec/BPMN/20100601/10-06-02.pdf Applicable law and courts will be determined, if no agreement is reached, in accordance with the applicable International Private contract governing rules. 2.- Regarding the Robert?s suggestion about the convenience of replacing of Copyright Holder by IPR Holder, although we understand the Robert?s rationale, we prefer to be aligned with the usual solution adopted in similar legal notices that are successfully working and that generate trust for developers. Further, in the "implicit model" we have modified the tittle "Copyright license" by "License" in line with current Legal Notices of similar specifications. Please check, i.e.: http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~ven/CIS/OMG/minimum%20corba%201.0.pdf The implicit patent license exist since, accordingly with this "implicit model" the Copyright holders are hereby authorizing to "to use this Specification, to create and distribute special purpose specifications and software that is an implementation of this Specification" We?ve also slightly modify last paragraph of the Warranty section in accordance with the mentioned principles, suppressing yellow marked words. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF SOFTWARE DEVELOPED USING THIS SPECIFICATION IS BORNE BY YOU. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE PATENT AND COPYRIGHT LICENSE GRANTED TO YOU TO USE THIS SPECIFICATION Finally, let us remind you that each partner/ partners may decide which legal notices prefer to use for their Specification. Some of them prefers the implicit models; others, the explicit.. This has been an open debate from the very beginning. We kindly invite you to check this final drafts and to accept them (except any typo). We must deliver the final version and we must do it now. No further delay is possible. Best regards Luis Garc?a Legal Dept Telef?nica I+D De: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de Juanjo Hierro Enviado el: jueves, 23 de mayo de 2013 3:44 Para: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Asunto: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE On 22/05/13 23:51, BEDOUI Patricia wrote: Dear Luis and all, With respect to the discussion related to the implicit/explicit patent grant, we share the opinion of Orange expressed by Robert Sarrazin. Indeed, from a legal point of view, IPRs can only be used by an implementer if they have been expressly granted. Organizations like the OMG (Object Management Group) that are specialized in producing standard Open Specifications and have run such business more than 20 years incorporating a Legal Notice to the specifications they publish which follows the same approach as the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Are you telling me they have been wrong running such a business which has produced some of the most significant standards in the software industry in these past 20 years ? Sounds strange to me. The credentials of these kind of organizations, BTW, is why we, at Telefonica, are more in favour of the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Furthermore, to let each partner choose the legal notice it prefers -as suggested in your e.mail - does not seem to be workable. If the IPRs holders of a specification do not agree concerning the notice choice -as is already the case-, then we will be facing a deadlock. Obviously, the decision on Legal Notice should go per Open Specification, not by partner. Maybe my email was confusing. Apologies for that. What I tried to say is that each partner can go for pushing one notice or the other when negotiating which one to use in a given specification. Many of them are owned by a single organization or a few number of organizations, that's why it shouldn't be that problematic. knowing what are the Open Specifications and the companies/organizations behind each one, I believe this won't be that problematic in practice. Ideally, we should only have one Legal Notice and we battled for that at the beginning but this was found finally impossible after several months of discussions, so we found the compromise for defining these two for which, in practice, there wouldn't be so many conflicts. We also agree that the definition of "essential patents" should be strictly restricted to the patents for which no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. Ok As expressed some weeks ago, we confirm that we are in favour of FRAND conditions for the license under patents. FRAND conditions do not exclude the possibility to grant patents royalty-free. We do not question the royalty-free condition when relating to the specification which only requires a copyright license. But the royalty-free condition should not apply automatically when it relates to the implementation of the specification requiring the use of patents. As I said in my email some days ago. We won't run discussions on this any longer. It's pretty clear what the contract and the Consortium Agreement signed by all of us say in this respect. Also our position as coordinator with respect how we will handle this. Finally, you have not taken into account our requests regarding the mentioning of the applicable law and the settlement of disputes which are common clauses in a contract. Curiously enough, such clauses are not present in other open specifications like the ones published by OMG. In a first approach, I tend to believe this is probably because that may tend to put barriers to adoption of specifications, while those organizations tend to try lowering the barriers of adoption of their specifications (same as we should with our FI-WARE specifications). Aren't there international rules that are applied to define what would be the applicable laws and the procedures for settlement of disputes depending on the parties involved in a litigation ? I leave this question to Luis. Best regards, -- Juanjo Best regards, Patricia BEDOUI Legal Counsel Thales Communications & Security SAS 4, Avenue des Louvresses 92622 GENNEVILLIERS cedex Tel. : +33(0)1 46 13 34 30 Fax : +33(0)1 46 13 21 92 The present message is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. The information contained therein may be confidential or privileged and its disclosure or reproduction is strictly forbidden. If you have received this communication in error, please return it immediately to its sender and destroy it. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 16 mai 2013 15:49 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:part4.09060703.06090906 at tid.es] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5328 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 23rd May - clean revised.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 26791 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - explicit grant 23rd May - clean revised.docx URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 23rd May - clean revised.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 24331 bytes Desc: FI-WARE Legal Notice - implicit grant 23rd May - clean revised.docx URL: From jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Thu May 23 14:02:41 2013 From: jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com (Heitto, Jonas (Jonas)) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 12:02:41 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F6541F6@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F6541F6@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <127C84805B8CDC4EBA7B1FEB557EC66A03179E@FR711WXCHMBA02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Dear Luis, given that many colleagues are out of office due to the pentecost holidays or otherwise, would it not be possible to reset the target date e.g. to 5 June? Best regards Jonas Dr. Jonas Heitto, LL.M. Senior IP Counsel ALCATEL-LUCENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & STANDARDS * Tel +49 711 821 44561 * Fax +49 711 821 44587 jonas.heitto at alcatel-lucent.com Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG Lorenzstra?e 10 70435 Stuttgart Sitz der Gesellschaft/ Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart . Amtsgericht/ District Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/ Chairman of the Board of Directors: Michael Oppenhoff Vorstand/ Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Vorsitzender/ Chairman) . Hans-J?rg Daub . Dr. Rainer Fechner . Andreas Gehe Note: This e-mail message and any documents accompanying it may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information belonging to Alcatel-Lucent. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us and delete all copies of the transmission. ________________________________ From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Mai 2013 12:46 To: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-legal] RV: FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Following Juanjo?s comments: 1,. About the "applicable law and settlement of dispute" question: from our perspective it?s preferable not include here a reference to the "applicable law or settlement of dispute" since the Copyright holder (s) vary from one Specification to another. We see no advantage in including a "neutral solution" (that could be "Belgium law and courts") and also do not consider that a section like this would work: Governing Law and Jurisdiction "You agree that all matters relating to the use of the "FI-WARE Open Specifications" shall be governed by the law the Copyright Holders determine. You agree and hereby submit to the exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue of the Courts the Copyright Holders decide, with respect to such matters." Further, no similar "legal notices" contains a specific section of "Applicable law and or Settlement of disputes" Please check, i.e.: http://www.omg.org/spec/BPMN/20100601/10-06-02.pdf Applicable law and courts will be determined, if no agreement is reached, in accordance with the applicable International Private contract governing rules. 2.- Regarding the Robert?s suggestion about the convenience of replacing of Copyright Holder by IPR Holder, although we understand the Robert?s rationale, we prefer to be aligned with the usual solution adopted in similar legal notices that are successfully working and that generate trust for developers. Further, in the "implicit model" we have modified the tittle "Copyright license" by "License" in line with current Legal Notices of similar specifications. Please check, i.e.: http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~ven/CIS/OMG/minimum%20corba%201.0.pdf The implicit patent license exist since, accordingly with this "implicit model" the Copyright holders are hereby authorizing to "to use this Specification, to create and distribute special purpose specifications and software that is an implementation of this Specification" We?ve also slightly modify last paragraph of the Warranty section in accordance with the mentioned principles, suppressing yellow marked words. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF SOFTWARE DEVELOPED USING THIS SPECIFICATION IS BORNE BY YOU. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE PATENT AND COPYRIGHT LICENSE GRANTED TO YOU TO USE THIS SPECIFICATION Finally, let us remind you that each partner/ partners may decide which legal notices prefer to use for their Specification. Some of them prefers the implicit models; others, the explicit.. This has been an open debate from the very beginning. We kindly invite you to check this final drafts and to accept them (except any typo). We must deliver the final version and we must do it now. No further delay is possible. Best regards Luis Garc?a Legal Dept Telef?nica I+D De: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de Juanjo Hierro Enviado el: jueves, 23 de mayo de 2013 3:44 Para: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Asunto: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE On 22/05/13 23:51, BEDOUI Patricia wrote: Dear Luis and all, With respect to the discussion related to the implicit/explicit patent grant, we share the opinion of Orange expressed by Robert Sarrazin. Indeed, from a legal point of view, IPRs can only be used by an implementer if they have been expressly granted. Organizations like the OMG (Object Management Group) that are specialized in producing standard Open Specifications and have run such business more than 20 years incorporating a Legal Notice to the specifications they publish which follows the same approach as the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Are you telling me they have been wrong running such a business which has produced some of the most significant standards in the software industry in these past 20 years ? Sounds strange to me. The credentials of these kind of organizations, BTW, is why we, at Telefonica, are more in favour of the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Furthermore, to let each partner choose the legal notice it prefers -as suggested in your e.mail - does not seem to be workable. If the IPRs holders of a specification do not agree concerning the notice choice -as is already the case-, then we will be facing a deadlock. Obviously, the decision on Legal Notice should go per Open Specification, not by partner. Maybe my email was confusing. Apologies for that. What I tried to say is that each partner can go for pushing one notice or the other when negotiating which one to use in a given specification. Many of them are owned by a single organization or a few number of organizations, that's why it shouldn't be that problematic. knowing what are the Open Specifications and the companies/organizations behind each one, I believe this won't be that problematic in practice. Ideally, we should only have one Legal Notice and we battled for that at the beginning but this was found finally impossible after several months of discussions, so we found the compromise for defining these two for which, in practice, there wouldn't be so many conflicts. We also agree that the definition of "essential patents" should be strictly restricted to the patents for which no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. Ok As expressed some weeks ago, we confirm that we are in favour of FRAND conditions for the license under patents. FRAND conditions do not exclude the possibility to grant patents royalty-free. We do not question the royalty-free condition when relating to the specification which only requires a copyright license. But the royalty-free condition should not apply automatically when it relates to the implementation of the specification requiring the use of patents. As I said in my email some days ago. We won't run discussions on this any longer. It's pretty clear what the contract and the Consortium Agreement signed by all of us say in this respect. Also our position as coordinator with respect how we will handle this. Finally, you have not taken into account our requests regarding the mentioning of the applicable law and the settlement of disputes which are common clauses in a contract. Curiously enough, such clauses are not present in other open specifications like the ones published by OMG. In a first approach, I tend to believe this is probably because that may tend to put barriers to adoption of specifications, while those organizations tend to try lowering the barriers of adoption of their specifications (same as we should with our FI-WARE specifications). Aren't there international rules that are applied to define what would be the applicable laws and the procedures for settlement of disputes depending on the parties involved in a litigation ? I leave this question to Luis. Best regards, -- Juanjo Best regards, Patricia BEDOUI Legal Counsel Thales Communications & Security SAS 4, Avenue des Louvresses 92622 GENNEVILLIERS cedex Tel. : +33(0)1 46 13 34 30 Fax : +33(0)1 46 13 21 92 The present message is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. The information contained therein may be confidential or privileged and its disclosure or reproduction is strictly forbidden. If you have received this communication in error, please return it immediately to its sender and destroy it. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 16 mai 2013 15:49 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:part4.09060703.06090906 at tid.es] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5328 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From robert.sarrazin at orange.com Thu May 23 14:56:42 2013 From: robert.sarrazin at orange.com (robert.sarrazin at orange.com) Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 14:56:42 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F6541F6@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F6541F6@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Message-ID: <32646_1369313819_519E120D_32646_1836_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522FD54@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> Dear Luis and all, Thank you Luis for your e mail. - First of all we do not support the use of the legal Notice with "implicit grant " for the reasons explained in our previous comments . - Concerning the legal Notice with " explicit grant" we think that we can accept this provided that a slight modification should be made in the definition of " Necessarily infringed " which should read as follows. "Necessarily infringed" shall mean that no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement." We think that the term " reasonable " should be deleted for consistency . Best regards De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 23 mai 2013 12:46 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] RV: FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Following Juanjo?s comments: 1,. About the "applicable law and settlement of dispute" question: from our perspective it?s preferable not include here a reference to the "applicable law or settlement of dispute" since the Copyright holder (s) vary from one Specification to another. We see no advantage in including a "neutral solution" (that could be "Belgium law and courts") and also do not consider that a section like this would work: Governing Law and Jurisdiction "You agree that all matters relating to the use of the "FI-WARE Open Specifications" shall be governed by the law the Copyright Holders determine. You agree and hereby submit to the exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue of the Courts the Copyright Holders decide, with respect to such matters." Further, no similar "legal notices" contains a specific section of "Applicable law and or Settlement of disputes" Please check, i.e.: http://www.omg.org/spec/BPMN/20100601/10-06-02.pdf Applicable law and courts will be determined, if no agreement is reached, in accordance with the applicable International Private contract governing rules. 2.- Regarding the Robert?s suggestion about the convenience of replacing of Copyright Holder by IPR Holder, although we understand the Robert?s rationale, we prefer to be aligned with the usual solution adopted in similar legal notices that are successfully working and that generate trust for developers. Further, in the "implicit model" we have modified the tittle "Copyright license" by "License" in line with current Legal Notices of similar specifications. Please check, i.e.: http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~ven/CIS/OMG/minimum%20corba%201.0.pdf The implicit patent license exist since, accordingly with this "implicit model" the Copyright holders are hereby authorizing to "to use this Specification, to create and distribute special purpose specifications and software that is an implementation of this Specification" We?ve also slightly modify last paragraph of the Warranty section in accordance with the mentioned principles, suppressing yellow marked words. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF SOFTWARE DEVELOPED USING THIS SPECIFICATION IS BORNE BY YOU. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE PATENT AND COPYRIGHT LICENSE GRANTED TO YOU TO USE THIS SPECIFICATION Finally, let us remind you that each partner/ partners may decide which legal notices prefer to use for their Specification. Some of them prefers the implicit models; others, the explicit.. This has been an open debate from the very beginning. We kindly invite you to check this final drafts and to accept them (except any typo). We must deliver the final version and we must do it now. No further delay is possible. Best regards Luis Garc?a Legal Dept Telef?nica I+D De: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de Juanjo Hierro Enviado el: jueves, 23 de mayo de 2013 3:44 Para: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Asunto: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE On 22/05/13 23:51, BEDOUI Patricia wrote: Dear Luis and all, With respect to the discussion related to the implicit/explicit patent grant, we share the opinion of Orange expressed by Robert Sarrazin. Indeed, from a legal point of view, IPRs can only be used by an implementer if they have been expressly granted. Organizations like the OMG (Object Management Group) that are specialized in producing standard Open Specifications and have run such business more than 20 years incorporating a Legal Notice to the specifications they publish which follows the same approach as the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Are you telling me they have been wrong running such a business which has produced some of the most significant standards in the software industry in these past 20 years ? Sounds strange to me. The credentials of these kind of organizations, BTW, is why we, at Telefonica, are more in favour of the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Furthermore, to let each partner choose the legal notice it prefers -as suggested in your e.mail - does not seem to be workable. If the IPRs holders of a specification do not agree concerning the notice choice -as is already the case-, then we will be facing a deadlock. Obviously, the decision on Legal Notice should go per Open Specification, not by partner. Maybe my email was confusing. Apologies for that. What I tried to say is that each partner can go for pushing one notice or the other when negotiating which one to use in a given specification. Many of them are owned by a single organization or a few number of organizations, that's why it shouldn't be that problematic. knowing what are the Open Specifications and the companies/organizations behind each one, I believe this won't be that problematic in practice. Ideally, we should only have one Legal Notice and we battled for that at the beginning but this was found finally impossible after several months of discussions, so we found the compromise for defining these two for which, in practice, there wouldn't be so many conflicts. We also agree that the definition of "essential patents" should be strictly restricted to the patents for which no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. Ok As expressed some weeks ago, we confirm that we are in favour of FRAND conditions for the license under patents. FRAND conditions do not exclude the possibility to grant patents royalty-free. We do not question the royalty-free condition when relating to the specification which only requires a copyright license. But the royalty-free condition should not apply automatically when it relates to the implementation of the specification requiring the use of patents. As I said in my email some days ago. We won't run discussions on this any longer. It's pretty clear what the contract and the Consortium Agreement signed by all of us say in this respect. Also our position as coordinator with respect how we will handle this. Finally, you have not taken into account our requests regarding the mentioning of the applicable law and the settlement of disputes which are common clauses in a contract. Curiously enough, such clauses are not present in other open specifications like the ones published by OMG. In a first approach, I tend to believe this is probably because that may tend to put barriers to adoption of specifications, while those organizations tend to try lowering the barriers of adoption of their specifications (same as we should with our FI-WARE specifications). Aren't there international rules that are applied to define what would be the applicable laws and the procedures for settlement of disputes depending on the parties involved in a litigation ? I leave this question to Luis. Best regards, -- Juanjo Best regards, Patricia BEDOUI Legal Counsel Thales Communications & Security SAS 4, Avenue des Louvresses 92622 GENNEVILLIERS cedex Tel. : +33(0)1 46 13 34 30 Fax : +33(0)1 46 13 21 92 The present message is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. The information contained therein may be confidential or privileged and its disclosure or reproduction is strictly forbidden. If you have received this communication in error, please return it immediately to its sender and destroy it. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 16 mai 2013 15:49 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.jpg at 01CE57C2.A0A80180] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5328 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From lgg at tid.es Mon May 27 16:45:57 2013 From: lgg at tid.es (LUIS GARCIA GARCIA) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 14:45:57 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] Adminotech Accession Form to FI-WARE Consortium Agreement. Message-ID: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F657A85@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> Dear all, As you know, several partners are joining the Project in the FI-WARE Open Calls Adminotech, a partner that is joining in Open Call 2 request to include in the CA Annex 3: "List of Background and Sideground excluded from obligations to grant Access Rights" the following text: "Adminotech Oy exclude all Background and Sideground not owned by them as well as any Background and sideground which it has not itself introduced into the Project at its sole discretion for use in execution of the Project Find enclosed the Accession Form (in accordance with Annex 2 of the CA). Except any of you have any remarks about this paragraph (please let us know before next Thursday) we?ll execute the accession form. As you may see this paragraph is very similar to those that currently figure in Annex 3 We?ll also send you a complete set of the Consortium Agreement Accession Forms that have been executed with the rest of the new partners that have joined the project. Our best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:image001.png at 01CE5AF3.63075220] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 26800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 36 - Adminotech Ltd - Declaration of Accession to Consortium Agreement (FI-WARE) (to be signed).docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 16132 bytes Desc: 36 - Adminotech Ltd - Declaration of Accession to Consortium Agreement (FI-WARE) (to be signed).docx URL: From tara.macmahon at intel.com Fri May 31 19:28:24 2013 From: tara.macmahon at intel.com (Macmahon, Tara) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 17:28:24 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE In-Reply-To: <32646_1369313819_519E120D_32646_1836_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522FD54@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> References: <509EDF46338A8C41A9CECDD4CCF7D2072F6541F6@EX10-MB2-MAD.hi.inet> <32646_1369313819_519E120D_32646_1836_1_147E66A8846EF042B16D28E5D16231A01522FD54@PMEXCB1C.intranet-paris.francetelecom.fr> Message-ID: Dear Luis and all Please find attached Intel's comments on the Legal Notice Explicit Grant, which is the one which Intel will use. I accepted all changes and removed all comments to the version you circulated on 16 May, and so the attached shows the only three changes we require. Best regards Tara From: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of robert.sarrazin at orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:57 PM To: LUIS GARCIA GARCIA; fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: HAMELIN Valerie SG/DJ; NAGELLEN Thierry OLNC/OLPS; RAES Serge OLNC/OLPS Subject: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear Luis and all, Thank you Luis for your e mail. - First of all we do not support the use of the legal Notice with "implicit grant " for the reasons explained in our previous comments . - Concerning the legal Notice with " explicit grant" we think that we can accept this provided that a slight modification should be made in the definition of " Necessarily infringed " which should read as follows. "Necessarily infringed" shall mean that no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement." We think that the term " reasonable " should be deleted for consistency . Best regards De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 23 mai 2013 12:46 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] RV: FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Following Juanjo?s comments: 1,. About the "applicable law and settlement of dispute" question: from our perspective it?s preferable not include here a reference to the "applicable law or settlement of dispute" since the Copyright holder (s) vary from one Specification to another. We see no advantage in including a "neutral solution" (that could be "Belgium law and courts") and also do not consider that a section like this would work: Governing Law and Jurisdiction "You agree that all matters relating to the use of the "FI-WARE Open Specifications" shall be governed by the law the Copyright Holders determine. You agree and hereby submit to the exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue of the Courts the Copyright Holders decide, with respect to such matters." Further, no similar "legal notices" contains a specific section of "Applicable law and or Settlement of disputes" Please check, i.e.: http://www.omg.org/spec/BPMN/20100601/10-06-02.pdf Applicable law and courts will be determined, if no agreement is reached, in accordance with the applicable International Private contract governing rules. 2.- Regarding the Robert?s suggestion about the convenience of replacing of Copyright Holder by IPR Holder, although we understand the Robert?s rationale, we prefer to be aligned with the usual solution adopted in similar legal notices that are successfully working and that generate trust for developers. Further, in the "implicit model" we have modified the tittle "Copyright license" by "License" in line with current Legal Notices of similar specifications. Please check, i.e.: http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~ven/CIS/OMG/minimum%20corba%201.0.pdf The implicit patent license exist since, accordingly with this "implicit model" the Copyright holders are hereby authorizing to "to use this Specification, to create and distribute special purpose specifications and software that is an implementation of this Specification" We?ve also slightly modify last paragraph of the Warranty section in accordance with the mentioned principles, suppressing yellow marked words. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF SOFTWARE DEVELOPED USING THIS SPECIFICATION IS BORNE BY YOU. THIS DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY CONSTITUTES AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE PATENT AND COPYRIGHT LICENSE GRANTED TO YOU TO USE THIS SPECIFICATION Finally, let us remind you that each partner/ partners may decide which legal notices prefer to use for their Specification. Some of them prefers the implicit models; others, the explicit.. This has been an open debate from the very beginning. We kindly invite you to check this final drafts and to accept them (except any typo). We must deliver the final version and we must do it now. No further delay is possible. Best regards Luis Garc?a Legal Dept Telef?nica I+D De: fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] En nombre de Juanjo Hierro Enviado el: jueves, 23 de mayo de 2013 3:44 Para: fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Asunto: Re: [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE On 22/05/13 23:51, BEDOUI Patricia wrote: Dear Luis and all, With respect to the discussion related to the implicit/explicit patent grant, we share the opinion of Orange expressed by Robert Sarrazin. Indeed, from a legal point of view, IPRs can only be used by an implementer if they have been expressly granted. Organizations like the OMG (Object Management Group) that are specialized in producing standard Open Specifications and have run such business more than 20 years incorporating a Legal Notice to the specifications they publish which follows the same approach as the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Are you telling me they have been wrong running such a business which has produced some of the most significant standards in the software industry in these past 20 years ? Sounds strange to me. The credentials of these kind of organizations, BTW, is why we, at Telefonica, are more in favour of the Legal Notice with the implicit patent grant license. Furthermore, to let each partner choose the legal notice it prefers -as suggested in your e.mail - does not seem to be workable. If the IPRs holders of a specification do not agree concerning the notice choice -as is already the case-, then we will be facing a deadlock. Obviously, the decision on Legal Notice should go per Open Specification, not by partner. Maybe my email was confusing. Apologies for that. What I tried to say is that each partner can go for pushing one notice or the other when negotiating which one to use in a given specification. Many of them are owned by a single organization or a few number of organizations, that's why it shouldn't be that problematic. knowing what are the Open Specifications and the companies/organizations behind each one, I believe this won't be that problematic in practice. Ideally, we should only have one Legal Notice and we battled for that at the beginning but this was found finally impossible after several months of discussions, so we found the compromise for defining these two for which, in practice, there wouldn't be so many conflicts. We also agree that the definition of "essential patents" should be strictly restricted to the patents for which no technical alternative exists to avoid infringement. Ok As expressed some weeks ago, we confirm that we are in favour of FRAND conditions for the license under patents. FRAND conditions do not exclude the possibility to grant patents royalty-free. We do not question the royalty-free condition when relating to the specification which only requires a copyright license. But the royalty-free condition should not apply automatically when it relates to the implementation of the specification requiring the use of patents. As I said in my email some days ago. We won't run discussions on this any longer. It's pretty clear what the contract and the Consortium Agreement signed by all of us say in this respect. Also our position as coordinator with respect how we will handle this. Finally, you have not taken into account our requests regarding the mentioning of the applicable law and the settlement of disputes which are common clauses in a contract. Curiously enough, such clauses are not present in other open specifications like the ones published by OMG. In a first approach, I tend to believe this is probably because that may tend to put barriers to adoption of specifications, while those organizations tend to try lowering the barriers of adoption of their specifications (same as we should with our FI-WARE specifications). Aren't there international rules that are applied to define what would be the applicable laws and the procedures for settlement of disputes depending on the parties involved in a litigation ? I leave this question to Luis. Best regards, -- Juanjo Best regards, Patricia BEDOUI Legal Counsel Thales Communications & Security SAS 4, Avenue des Louvresses 92622 GENNEVILLIERS cedex Tel. : +33(0)1 46 13 34 30 Fax : +33(0)1 46 13 21 92 The present message is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. The information contained therein may be confidential or privileged and its disclosure or reproduction is strictly forbidden. If you have received this communication in error, please return it immediately to its sender and destroy it. De : fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-legal-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] De la part de LUIS GARCIA GARCIA Envoy? : jeudi 16 mai 2013 15:49 ? : fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu Objet : [Fiware-legal] FI-WARE LEGAL NOTICE Dear all, Find enclosed two drafts of the Legal Notices (explicit and implicit) for the FIWARE Open Specifications (each partner will choose the one it prefers). We have tried to include most of the compatible comments received from you. Thanks for your inputs? Accordingly with the FI-WARE Project roadmap, we need to conclude now the final "legal notice" Our intention is to consider these drafts as "final" ; notwithstanding, if you consider that something "essential" needs to be included (or any typo), please let us know before next Wednesday 22nd. To simplify the study of this new versions of the Legal Notice, we have included some explanatory notes about the changes introduced (not about all the comments received) No modifications have been introduced affecting the Royalty free character of this Legal Notice. This RF nature is in the essence of this project and in accordance with the FI-WARE Grant Agreement and Consortium Agreement and cannot be a matter of discussion. It's a very fundamental principle of this project that was agreed even at proposal preparation time (i.e., 3 years ago). Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Luis Garc?a Garc?a Asesoria Jur?dica // Legal Department Tfnos: +34 914832614 // +34913129666 Telef?nica Investigaci?n y Desarrollo, S.A.Unipersonal DISTRITO C- Edificio Oeste 1, 6? planta Ronda de la Comunicaci?n s/n 28050-Madrid (Espa?a) [cid:part4.09060703.06090906 at tid.es] ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Fiware-legal mailing list Fiware-legal at lists.fi-ware.eu https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-legal ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx ________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nuestra pol?tica de env?o y recepci?n de correo electr?nico en el enlace situado m?s abajo. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at: http://www.tid.es/ES/PAGINAS/disclaimer.aspx _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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