Hi Miguel, hi Manuel Attached the WP13 contribution for D.2.6.3 SotA Analysis - Emerging technologies @Toni, @Philipp: I did a final check and fixed some References table entries (each reference in its own row) Best regards Christof Am 07.04.2014 um 08:45 schrieb Toni Alatalo <toni at playsign.net>: > I did some edits to the Sync section along the lines of the comments > that posted yesterday, using MS Word 2010 with track changes on. Also > added a ref that had gone missing to the refs list at the end (Dahl > 13) > > Cheers, > ~Toni > > On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Philipp Slusallek > <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Great we agree here. >> >> BTW, Torsten has started to work on the KIARA implementation in JS and C# >> (beyond the stubs that we had so far) and we will sync (sic!) this to the >> initial C/C++ version from Dmitri we have now, so they can all talk to each >> other efficiently. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Philipp >> >> Am 06.04.2014 12:46, schrieb Toni Alatalo: >> >>> ok - I'll plan tomorrow so that can give a shot, thanks for info. >>> >>> and yes missing such a 'standalone' implementation is correct and >>> makes sense -- the implementation of the ECA biz in C++ tundra's >>> TundraProtocolModule etc. is pretty tied to the rest of the system, >>> rendering with Ogre etc. only kNet is separate but that's just the low >>> level networking and not related to the scene-entities. >>> >>> that's something where the standalone sync impl in WebTundra's >>> networking module helps a little now, gives a small simple client lib >>> for generic use (for example the case of sim servers discussed related >>> to SceneAPI) but only for Javascript & WebSockets. Erno has tested it >>> with Node.js recently btw. But Kiara with support for perhaps all >>> relevant langs later and transports etc. is indeed still good to check >>> for next steps and is sure great it already works for reX like things >>> in FiVES. >>> >>> ~Toni >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Philipp Slusallek >>> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Feel free to add to it based on the text you wrote. I pass the token to >>>> you. >>>> I am not exactly sure when it is supposed to go to the commission -- but >>>> this is very soon. >>>> >>>> Regarding the sync section. On the one hand you are right that realXtend >>>> had >>>> a generic protocol embedded in it, but my understanding was that it was >>>> pretty much tied to realXtend and not really available outside of it >>>> (even >>>> though one could probably have extracted it with some effort). This is >>>> the >>>> point I find important in the sense of offering a generic tool for >>>> synchronization. >>>> >>>> With "pure", I meant "standalone" in the sense of the above. Wording >>>> should >>>> be fixed. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Philipp >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 06.04.2014 09:34, schrieb Toni Alatalo: >>>> >>>>> I've also found it OK when looked previously. Had a couple of things >>>>> that wanted to add then but was traveling and didn't have access to >>>>> Word (actually never normally do unfortunately) so didn't have a way >>>>> to work on them safely. Still seems fine and is good to go if there's >>>>> a hurry - a couple of notes here anyhow in case there's a chance to >>>>> work on it still: >>>>> >>>>> a simple story -- how fi-ware has advanced the state of the art from >>>>> realXtend's perspective: >>>>> >>>>> - starting point: ECA model proposed as a standard for extensible >>>>> virtual worlds a few years back (Alatalo 2011). with a c++ >>>>> implementation that has since matured and is in commercial use >>>>> >>>>> - progress beyond state of art: ECA implemented over web sockets with >>>>> integrated 3D-UI with WebGL -> Web / HTML5 implementation of the same >>>>> proposed platform >>>>> - improvements to the ECA model: >>>>> * mapping between xml3d & reX ECA: allows much more human friendly >>>>> declarative authoring than TXML. integrates nicely to Web when used >>>>> inside HTML. >>>>> * entity hierarchy (not flat like before fi-ware, proper parenting) >>>>> (new in 3.3) >>>>> * proper custom component support from Javascript (new in 3.3) >>>>> * these last points also AFAIK enable complete representation of any >>>>> xml, including html & xml3d in reX ECA -> the generic simple network >>>>> protocol with AttributeChanged etc. messages works to sync those too >>>>> >>>>> In the current document I think a section based on that could be used >>>>> to improve the "Web User Interface Server Core Technologies" - it >>>>> doesn't really make sense to say: "Today, real-time synchronization of >>>>> 3D scenes is limited to specialized applications such as SecondLife >>>>> (secondlife.com) and games engines like Unreal and others. " when we >>>>> already presented a *generic* protocol and platform already 3 years >>>>> ago and have happily used it in business since. Basically what was >>>>> missing before fi-ware was a web/html5 implementation of that. >>>>> >>>>> That 2011 article which introduced the model & platform is this BTW, >>>>> perhaps good to add to refs: Toni Alatalo, "An Entity-Component Model >>>>> for Extensible Virtual Worlds," IEEE Internet Computing, vol. 15, no. >>>>> 5, pp. 30-37, Sept.-Oct. 2011, doi:10.1109/MIC.2011.82 >>>>> http://www.computer.org/csdl/mags/ic/2011/05/mic2011050030-abs.html >>>>> >>>>> Here is a mistake (it's realxtend.org, not .com) and I'd consider the >>>>> wording too: "FI-WARE technology is currently based on realXtend >>>>> (realXtend.com) [Dahl 13]. Additionally, an more pure synchronization >>>>> layer (FIVES) has been designed that is based on the FI-WARE Advanced >>>>> Middleware [Byelozyorov 13]" >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure if 'more pure' is a good choice of words there, >>>>> especially as AFAIK the FiVES implementation is basically identical >>>>> with the realXtend model and implementations. realXtend is also >>>>> completely pure in several ways: the ECA model doesn't specify any >>>>> vocabulary itself (like XML doesn't) but applications or plugins can >>>>> define whatever components they want (like xml3d and realXtend's set >>>>> of basic components do). The networking works automatically for any >>>>> component. reX ECA is independent of the transport layer: in current >>>>> Tundra impls the messaging is handled by the Kristalli / kNet library, >>>>> but any other transport could be used without the application layer >>>>> seeing any changes I think. >>>>> >>>>> I know and sure acknowledge that KIARA is much more ambitious and >>>>> advanced in how it can do the serialisation and automatically choose >>>>> suitable transports etc. but I'm not aware how something on the FiVES >>>>> level would be 'more pure' nor what that'd mean. If it refers to >>>>> generality with regards to application data types etc. it's AFAIK the >>>>> same. >>>>> >>>>> A more informative description of the differences in purity and >>>>> networking might be useful there. At least for me to understand what >>>>> the doc is trying to say :) >>>>> >>>>> Final point: some of these things are already done and being >>>>> delivered, at least glTF and other optimized transfer format support >>>>> (glTF demo in WebTundra demos, CTM also in xml3d.js) & integration >>>>> with the editor / Interface Designer and the basic 3D things - if this >>>>> is to report how we're progressed we could change some of the future >>>>> form 'wills' there to past tense: "FI-WARE technology is based on >>>>> XML3D [Sons 10] and will in future extend the current state-of-the-art >>>>> by (i) adding a much extended content pipeline for integrating 3D >>>>> content, (ii) a 3D asset data base including versioning and different, >>>>> Web-optimized 3D data formats (working with the glTF initiative at >>>>> Khronos), (iii) improved resource management for adaptive, on-demand >>>>> loading and unloading of scene content, (iv) improved developer tools >>>>> for distributed and synchronized Web applications, and (v) >>>>> significantly improving the access to hardware resources for >>>>> computational expensive tasks like AR, animation, and others. The >>>>> 3D-UI technologies will closely tie together with the Interface >>>>> Designer technology that will provide all of the features mentioned >>>>> above in an interactive context directly to users." >>>>> >>>>> Anyhow I think it's also fine already if must go forward. If there is >>>>> still time and you find some of these would be good improvements I can >>>>> give a shot at integrating them in some simple ways tomorrow (can get >>>>> to a compu with ms word then if necessary). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers and thanks for work on the comprehensive doc! >>>>> ~Toni >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Philipp Slusallek >>>>> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry for the dealy but I was extremely busy the last few weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is (what I consider) the final version of the SotA for WP13. I did >>>>>> a >>>>>> final pass over the general text, adding some more references, and >>>>>> adding >>>>>> an >>>>>> extensive Executive Summary that gives and overview of the available >>>>>> technology, puts it in perspective, and sketches how the individual >>>>>> enabler >>>>>> are related to each other.. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be good if someone did a quick pass over it to spot any typos >>>>>> and >>>>>> such but otherwise it should be ready to go. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope you like it :-), >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Philipp >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 17.03.2014 17:14, schrieb Christof Marti: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Philipp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can I delegate the finalization of the D.2.6.3 WP13 SoTA contribution >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am very busy going through OpenSpecs v3 and create the D.13.1.3 >>>>>>> Deliverable >>>>>>> and also checking all the Release 3 comments (Guides, UTP) and prepare >>>>>>> feedback >>>>>>> for Miguel, to get the release-review process going again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Important: In todays WPL/WPA call it was pointed out, that we also >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> provide a management summary (~ 1 page), containing only the newest >>>>>>> developments. >>>>>>> (For the other chapters this are the changes since last release of the >>>>>>> deliverable) >>>>>>> (For us this could be a compilation from the last part of all the GEs >>>>>>> sota) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards >>>>>>> Christof >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 16.03.2014 um 10:48 schrieb Philipp Slusallek >>>>>>> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I did go through the text and fixed quite a few missing references >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> marked some others that are still missing (please can some of the >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> involved in those GEs fix them). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In general, there is a lack of references to previous work in quite a >>>>>>>> few of the GE descriptions. Please follow the model we have done in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> middleware section and add some more references to previous work and >>>>>>>> then position your work in FI-WARE in relation to that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Philipp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am 15.03.2014 08:13, schrieb Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I read through the paper in my behalf, and the text seems to be >>>>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>>>> much collected from the text that has been formulated already >>>>>>>>> earlier. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> my opinion, it gives an overview of the state of the art and as such >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would guess it works as a deliverable for this purpose. However, >>>>>>>>> having >>>>>>>>> said that, I may not know all exact requirements what this >>>>>>>>> deliverable >>>>>>>>> is expected to fulfill. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I made minor changes here and there, mainly fixing misspellings and >>>>>>>>> word >>>>>>>>> ordering. The modified document is attached here, with track changes >>>>>>>>> enabled. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - jarkko >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Marti Christof (mach) >>>>>>>>> <mach at zhaw.ch >>>>>>>>> <mailto:mach at zhaw.ch>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Philipp, dear WP13 GE Owners >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also due in M36 is an updated version (D.2.6.3) of the "State >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> art analysis - emerging technologies" deliverable. The >>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>> release can be found here: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://forge.fi-ware.org/docman/view.php/7/2667/D.2.6.2+State+of+the+Art+Analysis+-+Emerging+Technologies.pdf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://forge.fi-ware.org/docman/view.php/7/2667/D.2.6.2+State+of+the+Art+Analysis+%E2%80%93+Emerging+Technologies.pdf> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Idea for all existing WPs is to provide a management summary >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> only required updates on the existing chapters. >>>>>>>>> Because there is no Web User Interfaces chapter in the last >>>>>>>>> deliverable I took the content from the FI-Core proposal and >>>>>>>>> tried >>>>>>>>> to put together a WP13 contribution for this deliverable. >>>>>>>>> It was more work than expected, because the writing style in a >>>>>>>>> proposal is a little bit different than for this deliverable. >>>>>>>>> So >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would like to ask Philipp (and the respective GE owner for >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> part) to review the attached document (in change tracking >>>>>>>>> mode), >>>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>>> missing content and in particular also add missing entries in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> "Reference" section. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Deadline for delivering updates to the coordinator for review >>>>>>>>> is/was >>>>>>>>> today (March 14th). Because of this additional internal review >>>>>>>>> roundtrip, this will not be feasible. >>>>>>>>> If each GE owner can review its 20 to 30 lines and Philipp >>>>>>>>> keeps >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>> eye on the overarching context until Monday noon, the delay >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> minimal. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for your contributions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @Miguel, Juanjo: I do not want to release this without the OK >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> Philipp and the domain experts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards >>>>>>>>> Christof >>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>> InIT Cloud Computing Lab - ICCLab >>>>>>>>> Institut of Applied Information Technology - InIT >>>>>>>>> Zurich University of Applied Sciences - ZHAW >>>>>>>>> School of Engineering >>>>>>>>> Phone: +41 58 934 70 63 <tel:%2B41%2058%20934%2070%2063> >>>>>>>>> Skype: christof-marti >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Fiware-miwi mailing list >>>>>>>>> Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>>>>> <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu> >>>>>>>>> https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-miwi >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila >>>>>>>>> VP, Technology >>>>>>>>> Cyberlightning Ltd. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mobile. +358 405245142 >>>>>>>>> email. jarkko at cyberlightning.com <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Go to www.cybersli.de <http://www.cybersli.de/> and enrich your >>>>>>>>> presentations! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> www.cyberlightning.com <http://www.cyberlightning.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Geschäftsführung: >>>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> <D.2.6.3 State of the Art Analysis - Emerging Technologies - >>>>>>>> WP13-1-phs.docx><slusallek.vcf> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>>> >>>>>> Geschäftsführung: >>>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>>> >>>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-miwi mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.org >>>>>> https://lists.fi-ware.org/listinfo/fiware-miwi >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>> >>>> Geschäftsführung: >>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>> >>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >> >> Geschäftsführung: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. 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