Hi, Ok lets start about the expected functionality of the AR GE, what it should be, and where exactly your expectations come from? Neither, in the epic description http://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/FIWARE.Epic.AdvUI.AdvWebUI.AugmentedRealityof the AR GE, nor in the original proposal, the vision-based registration or tracking is not mentioned at all. Yeah the epic description is vague and you probably can understand it in different ways. How I have understood it, the plan was mainly to focus on location-based registration and tracking, AR browser type functionality, which was based on some of the other epics (POI). The vision-based registration and tracking was a side track, a chance to see if the ALVAR can provide some additional functionality over the xflow JSARtoolkit implementation. The result was disappointment. I'm not happy with it and have expressed my disappointment of the outcome to our contact in VTT. Regarding to a possibility to provide natural feature tracking through Chrome Native Client with ALVAR. Well, that depends on VTTs interests, do they want to go that route, and more importantly do they want to do it with us. This also involves contractual issues which are out of my hand . Lastly, how do we proceed with the issues regarding to the functionality of AR GE. Is the public opinion that the functionality is too limited? What are the exact features that should be included? Also, you speak the AR GE as a major component of MIWI, is this really the case? If the other parties agree with you, then we must have some serious discussions at the CIE, about how our resources will be directed in the future. -Antti- 2014-02-23 12:21 GMT+02:00 Philipp Slusallek <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>: > Hi, > > I am quite a bit disappointed by the current state of affairs regarding > the AR functionality in MiWi. > > The goal was definitely to significantly improve the functionality and > performance over what was already available. This seems not to be the case! > In particular, it sounds as if the key contribution has been to recompile > ALVAR with Emscripten, which does not seem like a major effort. > > We need to be careful that this is not seen the same way by the reviewers. > As you probably have seen the in similar cases the reviewers/commission > have rejected significant costs from the original FI-WARE partners already. > They may possibly end up doing do the same here if they see more > deficiencies. > > Not only for this reason but also for offering a solid platform for > Phase-3 and the rest of the world, where AR will be a major component, I > suggest that you evaluate all possibilities to still significantly improve > the capabilities and performance of the AR aspect for WP13 in the remaining > (extended) period of the project. > > One possible solution could be to use the Native Client functionality of > Chrome together with the extended version of ALVAR (or another AR library). > > > Best, > > Philipp > > Am 21.02.2014 10:08, schrieb Antti Karhu: > >> Hi, >> >> Good questions, hope this answer will clear things >> >> * There is the crucial need for markerless tracking using predefined >> >> image markers in FIcontent. It is one of the features of the >> utilized ALVAR library. When will it be exposed through JavaScript >> and hopefully also Xflow? >> >> Let's start with some definitions: >> >> >> (1) Marker: A fiducial marker is defined as a square box that is divided >> into a grid. The outside cells of the grid are always black and the >> inside cells can be either white or black. >> >> >> (2) Image Marker: An image marker is very similar to the Marker with the >> difference being that the resolution of the grid is a bit larger and the >> inside cells can form a shape or logo. >> >> >> (3) Natural Feature Image: A natural feature image is simply an image, >> it might be computer generated or taken by a camera. The image doesn't >> have any borders nor doesn't necessarily have to be square or rectangular. >> >> >> There are multiple versions of ALVAR with different level of features >> supported. The one that have been ported to javascript is called ALVAR >> MOBILE. It supports detecting and tracking markers(1) and image >> markers(2). The image markers must have a clearly recognizable border >> and the contents must not have too much detail but rather be made up of >> solid shapes or big block letters. The ideal resolution for image >> markers is spanning from 8x8 to 32x32. >> >> >> There is already a version that exposes the detecting and tracking image >> markers through Xflow: >> https://github.com/Cyberlightning/Cyber-WeX/blob/ >> master/DataflowProcessing/demos/xflowAR/index.php. >> I haven't included this to the AR GE yet, because there is serious >> problems with accuracy and performance with mobile devices. >> >> >> There is also an another version called ALVARTracker, that implements a >> >> generic 6DOF tracker but can also be adapted to detect and track (3) >> natural feature images. This version is not ported to javascript nor >> won't be ported in near future. >> >> >> The ALVAR Mobile was ported to javascript using emscripten and this was >> quite an easy process because the ALVAR Mobile doesn't have any third >> party dependencies. However this isn't the case with the ALVAR Tracker. >> The guys on VTT thought that trying to port it to javascript is much >> bigger task, and because it has a multi-threaded AR pipeline with >> hardware acceleration(SIMD, NEON) that can't be currently achieved with >> javascript, it is basically just waste of time. >> >> >> * To what degree do you take advantage of hardware acceleration, in >> >> particular to be used on mobile devices? >> >> There is no hardware acceleration used now, and no plans to use it for >> next release 3.3. The situation is that the emscripten ported ALVAR is >> machine generated javascript, so it's pretty much a black box, you put >> the video frame in and get the transform matrix out. Trying to identify >> which part of the code could benefit from hardware acceleration is hard. >> Even harder would be to replace parts of the javascript code with an >> equivalent GLSL or WebCL parts. Obviously someone have to write the >> shaders of those parts first. Because of the limited resources, >> unfortunately there is no change that this will happen at any time soon. >> >> >> -Antti- >> >> >> >> 2014-02-20 20:58 GMT+02:00 Stefan Lemme <stefan.lemme at dfki.de >> <mailto:stefan.lemme at dfki.de>>: >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> after our workshop last week a few questions about the Augmented >> Reality GE raised and hopefully you can provide some insights. >> >> * There is the crucial need for markerless tracking using >> >> predefined image markers in FIcontent. It is one of the features >> of the utilized ALVAR library. When will it be exposed through >> JavaScript and hopefully also Xflow? >> * To what degree do you take advantage of hardware acceleration, >> >> in particular to be used on mobile devices? >> >> I would really appreciate to get some more informations about the >> open questions. >> >> Best regards, >> Stefan >> >> >> -- >> ******************************************************** >> Stefan Lemme >> >> DFKI GmbH >> Agenten und Simulierte Realität >> Campus, Geb. D 3 4, Raum 0.75 >> 66123 Saarbrücken >> >> Tel.:+49 (0) 681 / 85775 - 5391 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%20681%20% >> 2F%2085775%20%E2%80%93%205391> >> Fax:+49 (0) 681 / 85775 - 2235 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%20681%20% >> 2F%2085775%20%E2%80%93%202235> >> >> http://www.dfki.de/web >> ******************************************************** >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz GmbH >> Trippstadter Straße 122 >> D-67663 Kaiserslautern, Germany >> >> Geschaeftsführung: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973 >> Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/ >> ******************************************************** >> >> >> >> >> >> ******************************************************** >> Stefan Lemme >> >> DFKI GmbH >> Agents and Simulated Reality >> Campus, Build. D 3 4, room 0.75 >> D-66123 Saarbruecken >> Germany >> >> Phone: +49 (0) 681 / 85775 - 5391 >> Fax: +49 (0) 681 / 85775 - 2235 >> http://www.dfki.de/web >> ******************************************************** >> German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern, Germany >> >> Management Board: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Chairman) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> >> Chairman of the Supervisory Board: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >> >> Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313 >> ******************************************************** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fiware-miwi mailing list >> Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu >> https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-miwi >> >> > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > Geschäftsführung: > > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > Dr. Walter Olthoff > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. 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