It works for me De: <fiware-ngsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-ngsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org>> on behalf of Tobias Jacobs <Tobias.Jacobs at neclab.eu<mailto:Tobias.Jacobs at neclab.eu>> Fecha: martes, 17 de mayo de 2016, 10:27 Para: Ernoe Kovacs <Ernoe.Kovacs at neclab.eu<mailto:Ernoe.Kovacs at neclab.eu>>, FERMIN GALAN MARQUEZ <fermin.galanmarquez at telefonica.com<mailto:fermin.galanmarquez at telefonica.com>>, "fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org>" <fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org>>, JUAN JOSE HIERRO SUREDA <juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com<mailto:juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com>> Asunto: [Fiware-ngsi] reminder: telco this week Dear all, please do not forget to specify your availability for a telco this week: http://doodle.com/poll/43meqmm9eeq427mp A good candidate time slot seems to be Wednesday (tomorrow) at 16:00 CST. Juanjo, Ernoe, Tarek, Lindsay, Jose Manuel, Sergio, would that work for you as well? Best regards Tobias From: fiware-ngsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-ngsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org> [mailto:fiware-ngsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org] On Behalf Of Ernoe Kovacs Sent: Freitag, 13. Mai 2016 15:23 To: Fermín Galán Márquez; fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org> Subject: Re: [Fiware-ngsi] Proposal to resolve NGSIv2 issues Dear Fermin and Juanjo, all on the list The current NGSIv2 specification as described in APIary is NOT in a state that allows NEC to agree to it within the proposed deadline by end of May. Please read the arguments below. Let me assure you that we are very much interested in a good NGSI 2.0 spec (including an aligned JSON and JSON-LD binding). And we are also adherer to the FIWARE request to document API using APIary. (1) Issues We have identified a large number of issues whose impacts have to be further studied. Gile pointed out some further issues. We have recently focused our time on the JSON-LD discussion and we are confident to say that the so far “agreed parts” of NSGI-JSON-LD will not be backwards compatible – and in our opinion cannot be made backwards compatible – to the proposed version of NGSIv2-JSON. In addition, we see many other issuse in the NGSIv2-JSON specification that need more time as they MAY pose problems to backward compatibility. (2) Way Forward Our proposal stands to continue the discussion focussing on the data model first and agree to a first subset of the specification by the end of June. We will continue to analyse and document the issues and then work on an acceptable resolution. Suggest to use the coming PhC for planning this. (3) Disclaimer Thus, if Telefonica anyway wants to go ahead with releasing an NGSIv2-JSON (“Telefonica NGSIv2”) by the end of May, NEC will not feel bound to backwards compatibility to this version and will make no efforts to implement it. We will continue to work on a suitable specification of next generation NGSI and try to find agreement within FIWARE – remaining open issues will have to be handled in the ETSI ISG. I think we all understand that a mature input document will smooth the work in the ETIS ISG. (4) Specification Our standpoint regarding APIary – it is suitable for an application developer who wants to get an introduction and overview of a GE interface. So for documenting APIs and showing examples. But it is also very clear, this is just a editor or a form that can be filled. Just having the form filled, does not say anything about a good spec. The form can be filled good or badly. At the moment, we think it is missing essential formal aspects of a spec. It is very difficult to develop a complete formal specification within this tool and we anyway need a formal document for the ETSI ISG. We think we should first develop a complete formal specification for NGSI – which is supposed to be a standard and not the interface of a single GE. In our opinion most of the NGSI GEs can then simply reference the spec and give further examples. Then, based on the complete formal specification, an APIary description for the different GEs can be developed, satisfying the FIWARE requirement. (5) Use Cases and Consensus We fully agree with the approach that “any new requirement or issue around existing spec should be supported by a use case and a real prove that such use case cannot solved by other mechanism.” With other words, anything that is moving away from the current OMA NGSI spec needs to be justified by and agreed use case and a proof, it cannot be done otherwise. Suggest to identify the issue, provide the use case and the proof. Note the starting point: the current FIWARE NGSI as well as the OMA NGSI spec. I know, we have cases in which we want to drop/change an existing feature. We need to settle them. We agree that arguing along use cases is good. (6) Common Discussion Thread (not two NGSI2.0-JSON and one for NGSI2.0-JSON-LD) It is important to have one discussion thread. Some discussion have been done and agreed in one mail thread, but suddenly is not agreed in the other. Please be aware, we are highly interested to have a clean, understandable and long-term usable spec: I wish you all a good and long weekend, then startup the work next week. - Ernoe ______________________________________________________________________________________ Dr. Ernö Kovacs エルノー・コヴァーチェ NEC Europe Ltd. NEC Laboratories Europe Senior Manager Cloud Service and Smart Things Kurfürsten-Anlage 36 | D-69115 Heidelberg E-Mail: ernoe.kovacs at neclab.eu<mailto:ernoe.kovacs at neclab.eu> Tel. +49 6221 4342 – 131 | Fax. +49 6221 4342 – 115 Mobile: +49 (163) 2086046 NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB | Registered in England 2832014 ______________________________________________________________________________________ [NEC_Email_Footer_leafenginev2]<http://www.leafengine.com/> From:fiware-ngsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-ngsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org> [mailto:fiware-ngsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org] On Behalf Of Fermín Galán Márquez Sent: Freitag, 13. Mai 2016 09:46 To: fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org> Subject: Re: [Fiware-ngsi] Proposal to resolve NGSIv2 issues Dear Enroe, JSON-LD and context availability management (registrations) are not mature enough and should be left out for the first batch of stable functionality, which should be focused in the real mature part: context management (which I understand is the piece you name "representation of entity information"). This will make the work much easier and allow to achieve the target by end of May. Of course, if you want to set a new target for the second release of stable functionality including representation of entity information (the one frozen by end of May) + representation of registrations + information section on requirements and system assumptions + JSON-LD, it is ok with me (although I think that the end of June date is too optimistic for that, as the last three topics are not so mature). Given that looking to the doodle it may pass some time until we have the audio and we cannot lose time, I have taken the liberty of answering your comment in the doc (see inline [FGM] comments in green). As you can see, leaving apart the JSON-LD part, all the issues can be concluded in either one of this three ways: * It is not a blocker for the releasing of a frozen stable batch of NGSIv2 focused on context management. * The issue is solvable adding optionality * Is a minor thing, easily fixable in the spec .apib before end of May So, I'm still thinking that we can frozen a stable version now, apart from some minor details that need to be polished. Finally, regarding specification format/tool, FIWARE rules mandates to use APIary to describe REST APIs (see https://forge.fiware.org/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/Developer_Guidelines). And NGSIv2 is a REST API. Thus, the specification format is out of scope: it has to be APIary (which of course doesn't preclude to generate other documents based on that APIary specifications if you need so for other fora, eg. ETSI). Best regards, ------ Fermín El 12/05/2016 a las 8:53, Ernoe Kovacs escribió: Dear FIWARE colleagues, In the recent weeks intensive technical discussions about the next version of NGSI have been taking place, mostly concerning 1) details of a JSON-LD representation 2) the maturity of the current NGSI v2 proposal (on GitHub repository of Orion Context Broker) for official release In our understanding there are two competing high-level requirements: a) very soon releasing NGSI v2 and committing to a certain level of backwards compatibility of future NGSI 2 versions. b) making sure that the released version is sufficiently mature, complete, and has been agreed by the involved partners, so that backwards compatibility can indeed be guaranteed. In NEC’s view it will not be possible to achieve the needed agreement and maturity of the full specification to enable a release within a few weeks. We have prepared a document listing the various technical issues we are seeing at the moment; please find it attached. In order to move forward in an effective way, NEC proposes the following approach: - Target: reaching an agreement and formal specifications on a subset of the aspects by the end of June 2016. What we concretely propose is to restrict the current scope to the NGSI data model and its representation in JSON and JSON-LD, including o representation of entity information o representation of registrations o (optionally) an informative section on requirements and system assumptions - Process: o weekly phone conferences in a fixed time slot o systematically documenting the discussion threads and the conclusions reached. Such documents can then be continued to be used inside the ETSI ISG for any remaining unresolved issue. A document structure as we propose it is shown in the attached screenshot Issues_Resolution_ToC.png file, for discussion, and some material that might be brought into such a format is in the file 20160511_ngsi-2_open-issues.docx. o preparation of a standalone specification document, so that it will be clear what the partners exactly agree to. Which tool to use (GitHub, APIary, googledoc, word file, etc.) is subject to discussion. The resulting document can again serve as input for the ETSI ISG. We believe that restricting the scope for now is necessary in order to be able to achieve the necessary level of maturity within a short time. Of course this means that the backwards compatibility promise is limited to the representation format and does not include the details of the query language. As written on Tuesday, we would like to discuss this proposal in a conference call this week; please specify your availability here http://doodle.com/poll/43meqmm9eeq427mp Best regards Ernoe Kovacs (NEC) and NEC team (Martin Bauer, Tobias Jacobs, Lindsay Frost) Since January 1st, old domains won't be supported and messages sent to any domain different to @lists.fiware.org will be lost. Please, send your messages using the new domain (Fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:Fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org>) instead of the old one. _______________________________________________ Fiware-ngsi mailing list Fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:Fiware-ngsi at lists.fiware.org> https://lists.fiware.org/listinfo/fiware-ngsi ________________________________ Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. 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