Dear Juanjo and all,
NEC can agree to the rewording concerning FRAND, moving the footnote into the main text:
Group Specifications developed within the CIM ISG will be public and royalty-free. However, the ISG CIM aims to re-use established specifications where appropriate, which may mean referencing specifications under FRAND conditions. When that is the case, readers shall be notified.
Please copy to this mailing list any document which you send to ETSI. We all need to inform our management of the status.
Thank you,
Lindsay
________________________________________
Dr. Lindsay Frost, Chief Standardization Eng.
frost at neclab.eu<mailto:frost at neclab.eu> Mobile +49.163.275.1734
NEC Laboratories Europe, Kurfürsten-Anlage 36,
D-69115 Heidelberg, Germany.
Reg. Headoffice: NEC Europe Ltd, VAT DE161569151
Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End Road,
London HA4 6QE, Reg. in England 2832014
From: Juanjo Hierro [mailto:juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 10. August 2016 22:54
To: Lindsay Frost; Fiware-oasc-etsi at lists.fiware.org
Cc: Stefan Gessler; Juanjo Hierro
Subject: Re: [Fiware-oasc-etsi] ToR draft for revision prior submission -- Reviewed by NEC
Dear Lindsay,
Regarding the important matter about licensing.
I agree with the footnote you added:
ISG CIM aims to re-use established specifications where appropriate, which may for example mean referencing specifications from ETSI, oneM2M or OMA which are published under FRAND conditions
However, I don't understand the meaning of the additional sentence you incorporated:
(although readers shall be notified that usage of such specifications may require use of material subject to licensing)
If you were trying to explain that precisely because we may re-use established specifications under FRAND conditions, there may be part of the specifications that may refer to complementary material subject to licensing, I believe that such clarification is redundant with the footnote and brings confusion (because you are distinguishing beetween a footnote and a statement, which leads to the implicit understanding that you are trying to explain two different things.
I believe even that it would be better to incorporate the text of the footnote to the main text. What about rewriting the main text so that it reads as follows?
Group Specifications developed within the CIM ISG will be public and royalty-free. However, the ISG CIM aims to re-use established specifications where appropriate, which may mean referencing specifications under FRAND conditions. When that is the case, readers shall be notified.
This is an important issue, so that despite I wanted to submit the text tonight, I prefer to close this matter.
Note that tomorrow I'll be travelling to NYC to start holidays ... I may be able to react before 12:00pm when my flight departs. Then, after that, I will try to process email in the evening/night (NYC time) of tomorrow.
Best regards,
-- Juanjo
On 10/08/16 17:01, Lindsay Frost wrote:
Dear all,
attached is the review copy from NEC. Changes by Herman and Juanjo were first accepted and then in a few places a change-tracked modification inserted. Several suggested additional changes from Lindsay Frost are marked with comments to explain the reasoning.
In particular, the FRAND issue and (short notice) convening of virtual meetings needed addressing.
Please inform us if any of the changes are not acceptable to anyone.
NEC is available for final comments/approval tonight or tomorrow morning by email (until 11pm).
best wishes
Lindsay and Stefan
________________________________________
Dr. Lindsay Frost, Chief Standardization Eng.
frost at neclab.eu<mailto:frost at neclab.eu> Mobile +49.163.275.1734
NEC Laboratories Europe, Kurfürsten-Anlage 36,
D-69115 Heidelberg, Germany.
Reg. Headoffice: NEC Europe Ltd, VAT DE161569151
Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End Road,
London HA4 6QE, Reg. in England 2832014
From: fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org> [mailto:fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org] On Behalf Of Lindsay Frost
Sent: Mittwoch, 10. August 2016 14:26
To: Juanjo Hierro; Fiware-oasc-etsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:Fiware-oasc-etsi at lists.fiware.org>
Subject: Re: [Fiware-oasc-etsi] ToR draft for revision prior submission -- re "royalty free"
To: Juanjo Hierro <juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com<mailto:juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com>>; Fiware-oasc-etsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:Fiware-oasc-etsi at lists.fiware.org>
Dear all,
regarding "public and royalty-free", there is a major difficulty in the words "will be" in the wording "Group Specifications will be public and royalty-free" because of course the CIM ISG members cannot guarantee that there is no IPR from any company (member or not) in a spec.
Even if the wording is changed to "CIM Members and Participants explicitly grant royalty-free licensing for any of their company IPR used in the specifications" the ISG will naturally need to reference or include material from ETSI or OMA specs, which will make a system built according to the combined specs subject to FRAND licensing.
As an example, the OSGi operates according to Apache 2.0 IPR rules (zero royalty) and has enormous difficulty co-operating with other bodies which "only" have FRAND: OSGi just cannot accept technical inputs from such FRAND sources.
What _could_ be done is to insert text "Specifications published by the ISG CIM will be public and with royalty-free licensing, although users are notified that usage of such specifications may require use of material subject to FRAND licensing."
Juanjo, would that satisfy the intent?
See other ETSI IPR details below.
best wishes
Lindsay
Appendix: ETSI Rules for ISGs and for IPR Policy
I checked the ETSI ISG RULES in the ETSI Directives<https://portal.etsi.org/directives/36_directives_jun_2016.pdf> Section 3:
page 132 states "In any case, where a Partner is submitting a technical proposal for a Group Specification or a Group Report, it shall, on a bona fide basis, comply with the ETSI IPR Policy and draw the attention of ETSI not only to any of that Partner's IPR which might be essential if that proposal is adopted, but also to any of that Partner's member's IPR, which might be essential if that proposal is adopted."
I checked the ETSI IPR Policy from http://www.etsi.org/about/how-we-work/intellectual-property-rights-iprs available here ETSI IPR Policy<http://www.etsi.org/images/files/IPR/etsi-ipr-policy.pdf>:
" § 3.2 IPR holders whether members of ETSI and their AFFILIATES or third parties, should be adequately and fairly rewarded for the use of their IPRs in the implementation of STANDARDS and TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS."
"§ 6.1 When an ESSENTIAL IPR relating to a particular STANDARD or TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION is brought to the attention of ETSI, the Director-General of ETSI shall immediately request the owner to give within three months an irrevocable undertaking in writing that it is prepared to grant irrevocable licences on fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory ("FRAND") terms and conditions under such IPR [...]"
________________________________________
Dr. Lindsay Frost, Chief Standardization Eng.
frost at neclab.eu<mailto:frost at neclab.eu> Mobile +49.163.275.1734
NEC Laboratories Europe, Kurfürsten-Anlage 36,
D-69115 Heidelberg, Germany.
Reg. Headoffice: NEC Europe Ltd, VAT DE161569151
Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End Road,
London HA4 6QE, Reg. in England 2832014
-----Original Message-----
From: fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org> [mailto:fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org] On Behalf Of Mulligan, Catherine E A
Sent: Mittwoch, 10. August 2016 09:55
To: Juanjo Hierro; Fiware-oasc-etsi at lists.fiware.org<mailto:Fiware-oasc-etsi at lists.fiware.org>
Subject: Re: [Fiware-oasc-etsi] ToR draft for revision prior submission
Hi Juanjo,
I am in client meetings all day - I won¹t be able to look at this until about 3pm so I won¹t make the 4pm deadline. I¹ll do it as soon as I can after I get out of meetings.
Sorry but I needed this yesterday to get it ready for you by today.
Best,
Cathy
--
Dr Catherine Mulligan
Research Fellow
Associate Director, Imperial College Centre for Cryptocurrency Research and Engineering
OASC Standardisation // oascities.org <http://oascities.org/> Director and Co-Founder of Contextualised // http://www.contextualised.com/
+ 44 753 888 7477
c.mulligan at imperial.ac.uk<mailto:c.mulligan at imperial.ac.uk>
On 10/08/2016, 08:19, "fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org> on behalf of Juanjo Hierro" <fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org<mailto:fiware-oasc-etsi-bounces at lists.fiware.org> on behalf of juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com<mailto:juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com>> wrote:
>
> It would be nice to send to ETSI the draft today, sometime after
>16:00. Please try to review the text quickly and bring comments
>earlier so that we can make it.
>
> Cheers!
>
>-- Juanjo
>
>
>On 10/08/16 09:16, Juanjo Hierro wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Please find attached the version of ToR that I believe would be
>> fine for submission to ETSI.
>>
>> Thanks to Lindsay for his contributions. I have finalized the ToR
>> draft working on the version he distributed yesterday. I added his
>> input on liaisons. I also incorporated the whole text of the action
>> established in the EC 2016 rolling Plan on ICT Standardization as
>> requested by Cathy. I also incorporate some clarifications about
>> rules that would only apply to physical meetings (not virtual) like
>> distributing the agenda 30 days in advance (this is non-practical in
>> virtual confcalls which may be run more often). I have clarified
>> that Reports and Specifications will only be approved in physical
>> meetings which I believe is acceptable. I wonder whether you would
>> agree on that. I have also revised the part of Liasions with FIWARE
>> and give it some formatting here and there.
>>
>> One important point that I have added is the statement that Group
>> Specifications will be public and royalty-free (check Scope section,
>> phase 2). This was explicit in the very original drafts but after so
>> many changes I found it got diluted and this was relevant. Note that
>> such statement would apply not only to the CIM-API but the rest of
>> specs we aim at producing (including information models). I guess we
>> all agree on that.
>>
>> I have added Linsay to the FIWARE OASC mailing list to keep the
>> more general discussion also under the list.
>>
>> The final version to be submitted to the ETSI team will have all
>> those comments we have accepted already as clean revised text, so
>> only our comments on their comments will be highlighted. However, I
>> have kept their comments also highlighted in the version I send now
>> for your convenience.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> -- Juanjo
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>>
>> Coordinator and Chief Architect, FIWARE platform IoT Unit, Telefónica
>>
>> email: juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com<mailto:juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com>
>> twitter: @JuanjoHierro
>>
>> You can follow FIWARE at:
>> website: http://www.fiware.org
>> twitter: @FIWARE
>> facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242
>> linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932
>>
>
>
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