On 21/05/12 23:21, Alex Glikson wrote: Dear Juanjo, all, Our legal department says there is no legal entity known as FIWARE Project Parties. So FIWARE Project Parties can not be the owners of anything, and can not be copyright owners either. Well ... the trick here was that "FI-WARE Project Partners" on the wiki is a link to the wiki page where project partners are listed ... so we thought was a kind of abbreviation of the whole list of partners ... BTW, I have replaced any ocurrence of the "FI-WARE partner" in the legal notice by "FI-WARE Project Partners" with the link to the wiki page listing the FI-WARE Project Partners for consistency. It also says in the CA and the GA, that the party that creates the Foreground is the owner of the Foreground. Nothing is said in the published FI-WARE Legal Notice about ownership. The legal notice covers license to use which is different. What the legal notices says in that respect is, essentially, that the specs are public and royalty-free, therefore anyone can build products based on them, that the FI-WARE partners are not responsible for identifying infringed patents, and that the FI-WARE partners are not liable for errors in the specifications. It doesn't say anything about ownership, so therefore any agreement between FI-WARE partners about such ownerships (i.e., whatever is stated in the CA/GA regarding ownership, prevails). Note that ownership doesn't equal to license to use which is what we have tried to regulate here according to the CA/GA. While IBM supports making the specifications public, as per the DOW, the DOW does not say we need to also give away ownership to what we wrote. I don't see what are we giving away about ownership with the current legal notice either. If you would like to write on your material "Copyright © 2012 FIWARE Project partners" that is your decision. But we believe that each Party should be able to decide if they want to retain ownership of their own material. That's why I proposed to change the sentence to say "Copyright © 2012 by FI-WARE Project partners" by "Copyright © 2012 by FI-WARE Project partners unless specified otherwise" (FI-WARE project partners being a link), and then you can negotiate the copyright that should come with whatever spec has been produced within your chapter with the contributing parties. Do you object to that formula ? Indeed I believe it covers your demands ... since you will be able to specify a different copyright statement (but not license to use) on what you consider your material. Note that, regarding copyright, we just tried to avoid going public without any sort of copyright. Now you can fix it if we introduce the proposed change. Regarding the rest of the Legal Notice, we are just defining the license to use specifications, in line with what the CA/GA states. We don't say anything about ownership, so the CA/GA prevails. Best regards, -- Juanjo Regards, Alex ==================================================================================================== Alex Glikson Manager, Cloud Operating System Technologies, IBM Haifa Research Lab http://w3.haifa.ibm.com/dept/stt/cloud_sys.html | https://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/dept/stt/cloud_sys.shtml Email: glikson at il.ibm.com<mailto:glikson at il.ibm.com> | Phone: +972-4-8281085 | Mobile: +972-54-6466667 | Fax: +972-4-8296112 From: "Fasse, Axel" <axel.fasse at sap.com><mailto:axel.fasse at sap.com> To: Juanjo Hierro <jhierro at tid.es><mailto:jhierro at tid.es>, Cc: "fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu"<mailto:fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu> <fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu><mailto:fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu>, "'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu)"<mailto:'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu'(fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu)> <fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu><mailto:fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu>, "fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu"<mailto:fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu> <fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu><mailto:fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu> Date: 21/05/2012 05:47 PM Subject: Re: [Fiware-wpl] [Fiware-wpa] Licence models Sent by: fiware-wpl-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-wpl-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu> ________________________________ Dear Juanjo, I’m already in discussions with our colleagues from the legal department. You will get a feedback as soon as possible. Best regards, Axel From: Juanjo Hierro [mailto:jhierro at tid.es] Sent: Montag, 21. Mai 2012 16:37 To: Fasse, Axel Cc: 'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu>' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu>); JOSE JIMENEZ DELGADO; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu>; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu> Subject: Re: [Fiware-wpa] Licence models Ok. Given your support, I will go for the proposed option (change "Copyright © 2012 FIWARE Project partners" by "Copyright © 2012 FIWARE Project partners unless specified otherwise") unless anyone objects before Wednesday 12:00 CET. Thanks and best regards, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es<http://www.tid.es/> email: jhierro at tid.es<mailto:jhierro at tid.es> twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu<http://www.fi-ware.eu/> facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 On 21/05/12 16:22, Fasse, Axel wrote: Dear Juanjo, you don’t have to convince me about a pragmatic approach. I think it is necessary to find a solution that is supported by all partners. Best regards, Axel From: Juanjo Hierro [mailto:jhierro at tid.es] Sent: Montag, 21. Mai 2012 16:12 To: Fasse, Axel Cc: 'fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu>' (fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-pcc at lists.fi-ware.eu>); JOSE JIMENEZ DELGADO; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu>; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu<mailto:fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu> Subject: Re: [Fiware-wpa] Licence models On 21/05/12 16:09, Juanjo Hierro wrote: Dear Axel, Trying to be pragmatic, one suggestion is that we change the sentence "Copyright © 2012 FIWARE Project partners" in the current FI-WARE Open Specifications Legal Notice changes to become "Copyright © 2012 FIWARE Project partners unless specified otherwise" ... and then allow those companies that believe they "own" a given specification to create a section at the beginning of the wiki page linked to their spec where the proper copyright notice in their opinion is written down. Of course, those companies that believe that the copyright of a given specification only belongs to them should justify it and get at least the agreement of at least partners of the same Chapter (e.g., Security Chapter) or joint Task Force (e.g., FI-WARE NGSI) Best regards, -- Juanjo Would that work for you ? Best regards, -- Juanjo ------------- Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital website: www.tid.es<http://www.tid.es/> email: jhierro at tid.es<mailto:jhierro at tid.es> twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Chief Architect You can follow FI-WARE at: website: http://www.fi-ware.eu<http://www.fi-ware.eu/> facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 On 21/05/12 15:18, Fasse, Axel wrote: Dear Juanjo, Dear Jose, we appreciate the work you and your legal team spend on the License you have supplied us. However, we agree with IBM, that the License is not based upon the CA because the copyright of the Generic Enabler Specification and the Generic Enabler, esp. the Code, is owned by the party who generated the Generic Enabler Specification and the Generic Enabler. We agree further with IBM, that each party is free to choose a license of its choice under which the release to the public can happen. Best regards, Axel Fasse --------------------------- Axel Fasse Senior Researcher SAP Research Karlsruhe SAP AG Vincenz-Priessnitz-Strasse 1 76131 Karlsruhe, Germany T +49 6227 7-52528 F +49 6227 78-55237 M +4915153858917 E axel.fasse at sap.com<mailto:axel.fasse at sap.com> www.sap.com Pflichtangaben/Mandatory Disclosure Statements: http://www.sap.com/company/legal/impressum.epx Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. 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