From sots at ait.gr Mon Jul 16 17:20:07 2012 From: sots at ait.gr (Sofia Tsekeridou) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:20:07 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Message-ID: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CC8A32@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Dear Denis, all, As it is a holiday period and some people already on leave, I am posting this also to the Fiware Streaming GE list for immediate action. The SafeCity representative in the FIWARE AB informed me that a decision of the last meeting last week was that we collaborate on including further requirements (video analytics already included) from SafeCity to the Streaming GE (see below). He mentioned that this work should be finalized by the end of the month. Do you plan to have a new version of the Streaming GE description document circulated? How do you think we should address the above point? With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Peretz Gurel [peretz at athenaiss.com] Sent: 12 July 2012 17:02 To: Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: Diego Gimenez Perez Subject: Video Analytics Dear Sofia, I have presented the PPT about video analytics. The part about video analytics in the pixel domain is already taken care of by the Streaming WG. It was agreed that the other topics as well will be handled by this WG in which you are already involved. So please work with Denis Michler (who also attended the AB meeting) according to the Action Point (AP): [X] Note that the WG has to conclude its work by the end of the month so that the otcome will be available for the second open call. Best regards, Peretz Gurel European Projects Manager Athena security implementations Ltd Office: +972-3-5572548 Mobile: +972-54-4734045 Email: peretz at athenaiss.com www.athenaiss.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From denis.mischler at technicolor.com Wed Jul 18 11:31:03 2012 From: denis.mischler at technicolor.com (Mischler Denis) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:31:03 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates Message-ID: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C5000250362302@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> Dear all, here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". (only a vocabulary correction) - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the Storage Enabler) and completed if "yes". Regards Denis Mischler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Streaming_GE_V07.doc Type: application/msword Size: 64000 bytes Desc: Streaming_GE_V07.doc URL: From p.amon at siemens.com Wed Jul 18 23:15:44 2012 From: p.amon at siemens.com (Amon, Peter) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates In-Reply-To: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C5000250362302@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> References: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C5000250362302@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> Message-ID: Dear Denis, all, thanks for the new version of the document! Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the codoan asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. My proposal: - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background estimation" - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, etc.)" Thanks for considering the proposal. Kind regards Peter ________________________________ From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates Dear all, here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". (only a vocabulary correction) - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the Storage Enabler) and completed if "yes". Regards Denis Mischler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sots at ait.gr Thu Jul 19 12:51:45 2012 From: sots at ait.gr (Sofia Tsekeridou) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:51:45 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Dear Peter, Dennis, all, With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. What do you think? Many thanks, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________________ From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu You can reach the person managing the list at fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 From: "Amon, Peter" To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Denis, all, thanks for the new version of the document! Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the codoan asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. My proposal: - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background estimation" - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, etc.)" Thanks for considering the proposal. Kind regards Peter ________________________________ From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates Dear all, here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". (only a vocabulary correction) - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the Storage Enabler) and completed if "yes". Regards Denis Mischler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Fiware-streaming mailing list Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 ********************************************** From slusallek at dfki.de Thu Jul 19 13:04:21 2012 From: slusallek at dfki.de (Philipp Slusallek) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:04:21 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5007E9B5.1050702@dfki.de> Hi, Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: > With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking > capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also > extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, > speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the > moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus > non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be > better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. > What do you think? Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of what is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). Best, Philipp > Many thanks, > > Sofia > > *************************************************** > Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > Assistant Professor > Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > Athens Information Technology - AIT > 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > E-mail: sots at ait.gr > sofia at ieee.org > Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > *************************************************** > > ________________________________________ > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 > To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 > From: "Amon, Peter" > To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" > , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Denis, all, > > thanks for the new version of the document! > > Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the codoan asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. > > My proposal: > - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background estimation" > - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, etc.)" > > Thanks for considering the proposal. > > Kind regards > Peter > > > ________________________________ > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis > Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 > To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > > Dear all, > here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) > > - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) > > - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". (only a vocabulary correction) > > - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the Storage Enabler) and completed if "yes". > Regards > Denis Mischler > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-streaming mailing list > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > > > End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > ********************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-streaming mailing list > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern Gesch?ftsf?hrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: slusallek.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 441 bytes Desc: not available URL: From p.amon at siemens.com Thu Jul 19 22:03:07 2012 From: p.amon at siemens.com (Amon, Peter) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:03:07 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Dear Sofia, all, additional requirements/functionalities should be listed in separate bullet points, e.g., - Extraction of movement information (e.g., direction, speed, movement statistics(?)) - Identification of rigid and non-rigid moving objects With regards to your question about the Multimedia Analysis GE (more specifically, the 'codoan' asset): The direction of movement should be extractable quite easily. To assess the speed, calibration with regards to the scene captured is needed. (This would have to be done similarly for pixel domain analysis.) Statistics about the measurements generally can be produced. Kind regards Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-streaming- > bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Sofia Tsekeridou > Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 12:52 > To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Dear Peter, Dennis, all, > > With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking capabilities > of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also extract information > about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, speed, or generally > movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the moving object, etc.? Is > it also possible to identify rigid versus non-rigid moving objects (e.g. > cars versus persons)? These may be better evaluated in the pixel domain > than in the compressed domain. What do you think? > > Many thanks, > > Sofia > > *************************************************** > Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > Assistant Professor > Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > Athens Information Technology - AIT > 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > E-mail: sots at ait.gr > sofia at ieee.org > Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > *************************************************** > > ________________________________________ > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- > bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi- > ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 > To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 > From: "Amon, Peter" > To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" > , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > Message-ID: > > et> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Denis, all, > > thanks for the new version of the document! > > Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving > object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background > estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the codoan > asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object > tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt > that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. > > My proposal: > - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background > estimation" > - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, > etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, > animal, suitcase, etc.)" > > Thanks for considering the proposal. > > Kind regards > Peter > > > ________________________________ > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-streaming- > bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis > Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 > To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > > Dear all, > here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) > > - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) > > - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". (only > a vocabulary correction) > > - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the Storage > Enabler) and completed if "yes". > Regards > Denis Mischler > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-streaming mailing list > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > > > End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > ********************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-streaming mailing list > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming From p.amon at siemens.com Thu Jul 19 22:19:47 2012 From: p.amon at siemens.com (Amon, Peter) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:19:47 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <5007E9B5.1050702@dfki.de> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> <5007E9B5.1050702@dfki.de> Message-ID: Dear Philipp, all, a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the functionality for the GE. An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the development process for FI-WARE GEs. Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. Kind regards Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-streaming- > bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek > Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 > To: Sofia Tsekeridou > Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Hi, > > Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: > > With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking > > capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also > > extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, > > speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the > > moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus > > non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be > > better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. > > What do you think? > > Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to > expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of what > is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs > will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based > analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). > > > Best, > > Philipp > > > Many thanks, > > > > Sofia > > > > *************************************************** > > Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > > Assistant Professor > > Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > > Athens Information Technology - AIT > > 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > > 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > > Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > > E-mail: sots at ait.gr > > sofia at ieee.org > > Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > > *************************************************** > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- > bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi- > ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > > Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 > > To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > > > Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > > fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 > > From: "Amon, Peter" > > To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" > > , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > > > > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > > Message-ID: > > > et> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Dear Denis, all, > > > > thanks for the new version of the document! > > > > Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving > object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background > estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the codoan > asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object > tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt > that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. > > > > My proposal: > > - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background > estimation" > > - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, > etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, > animal, suitcase, etc.)" > > > > Thanks for considering the proposal. > > > > Kind regards > > Peter > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis > > Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 > > To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > > > > Dear all, > > here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) > > > > - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) > > > > - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". > (only a vocabulary correction) > > > > - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the Storage > Enabler) and completed if "yes". > > Regards > > Denis Mischler > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fiware-streaming mailing list > > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > > > > > > End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > ********************************************** > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fiware-streaming mailing list > > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > Gesch?ftsf?hrung: > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > Dr. Walter Olthoff > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - From slusallek at dfki.de Fri Jul 20 07:43:05 2012 From: slusallek at dfki.de (Philipp Slusallek) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:43:05 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> <5007E9B5.1050702@dfki.de> Message-ID: <5008EFE9.8030306@dfki.de> Hi, Thank you very much, Peter. This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is touching on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise this conversation to the attention of the AB. In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in terms of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in general terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what is in the vision. Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain processing would not come and we only found out later that there will be something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". How about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete info about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one only works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to someone who wants to apply your GE. In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was not adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But that is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been so much more helpful. So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: codoan is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to the GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in the GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that people do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be in a GE. Best, Philipp Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: > a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the functionality for the GE. > > An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the development process for FI-WARE GEs. > > Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. > > Kind regards > Peter > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-streaming- >> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >> >> Hi, >> >> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, >>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the >>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus >>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be >>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>> What do you think? >> >> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of what >> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs >> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based >> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >> >> >> Best, >> >> Philipp >> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> *************************************************** >>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>> Assistant Professor >>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>> sofia at ieee.org >>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>> *************************************************** >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi- >> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>> >>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>> Message-ID: >>> >> > et> >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Dear Denis, all, >>> >>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>> >>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving >> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background >> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the codoan >> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt >> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>> >>> My proposal: >>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >> estimation" >>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, >> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, >> animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>> >>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>> >>> Dear all, >>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) >>> >>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>> >>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >> (only a vocabulary correction) >>> >>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the Storage >> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>> Regards >>> Denis Mischler >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: > streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>> >>> >>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>> ********************************************** >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >> >> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern Gesch?ftsf?hrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: slusallek.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 441 bytes Desc: not available URL: From p.amon at siemens.com Fri Jul 20 10:53:26 2012 From: p.amon at siemens.com (Amon, Peter) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:53:26 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <5008EFE9.8030306@dfki.de> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> <5007E9B5.1050702@dfki.de> <5008EFE9.8030306@dfki.de> Message-ID: Dear Philipp, sorry that I created even more confusion than resolved it. This was not my intent. Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if something happens in the scene) - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) For the next release, we plan to implement: - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from frame to frame in a video stream) I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video streams, 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of the two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally designed for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by SAFECITY). If you believe that the functionality offered by codoan (i.e., as realized as low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is not sufficient for your purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you want to do image analysis, not video analysis, or if you need analysis of uncompressed material), please keep the requirement in the Open Call. However, here we should be more precise what we exactly demand. On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be reflected in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the "object tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the wiki already some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this resource in my mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I guess this a topic for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the AB. If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there is a general problem. I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. Kind regards Peter However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore > -----Original Message----- > From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] > Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 > To: Amon, Peter > Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Hi, > > Thank you very much, Peter. > > This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is touching > on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the > UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and > which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise > this conversation to the attention of the AB. > > > In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in terms > of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in general > terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As > we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high > level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to > be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as > other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what > is in the vision. > > Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia > analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is > important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has > been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain > processing would not come and we only found out later that there will be > something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. > > Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki > specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a > reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". How > about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of > listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, > I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. > > Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs > in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing > GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming > so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very > concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete info > about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object > segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia > analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one only > works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what > type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work > with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to > someone who wants to apply your GE. > > In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did > search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to > multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level > analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was not > adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But that > is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been > so much more helpful. > > So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what > will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? > > As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the > base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" > the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: codoan > is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more > details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links > to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" > error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. > > Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to the > GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in the > GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back > to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I > would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that people > do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people > to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) > and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be in > a GE. > > > Best, > > Philipp > > > Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: > > a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview > for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the > FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like > for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the > functionality for the GE. > > > > An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled > "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future > planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided > by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the > development process for FI-WARE GEs. > > > > Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open > Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview > for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it > includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White > Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. > > > > Kind regards > > Peter > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > streaming- > >> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek > >> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 > >> To: Sofia Tsekeridou > >> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: > >>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking > >>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also > >>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, > >>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the > >>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus > >>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be > >>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. > >>> What do you think? > >> > >> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to > >> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of > what > >> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs > >> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based > >> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Philipp > >> > >>> Many thanks, > >>> > >>> Sofia > >>> > >>> *************************************************** > >>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > >>> Assistant Professor > >>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > >>> Athens Information Technology - AIT > >>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > >>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > >>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > >>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr > >>> sofia at ieee.org > >>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > >>> *************************************************** > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- > >> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- > request at lists.fi- > >> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > >>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 > >>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >>> > >>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > >>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> > >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> > >>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> > >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > >>> > >>> > >>> Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Message: 1 > >>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 > >>> From: "Amon, Peter" > >>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" > >>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > >>> Message-ID: > >>> > >> > >> et> > >>> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>> > >>> Dear Denis, all, > >>> > >>> thanks for the new version of the document! > >>> > >>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving > >> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background > >> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the > codoan > >> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object > >> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt > >> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. > >>> > >>> My proposal: > >>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background > >> estimation" > >>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, > >> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, > >> animal, suitcase, etc.)" > >>> > >>> Thanks for considering the proposal. > >>> > >>> Kind regards > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > >> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis > >>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 > >>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > >>> > >>> Dear all, > >>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) > >>> > >>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) > >>> > >>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". > >> (only a vocabulary correction) > >>> > >>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the > Storage > >> Enabler) and completed if "yes". > >>> Regards > >>> Denis Mischler > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: >> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Fiware-streaming mailing list > >>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>> > >>> > >>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >>> ********************************************** > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Fiware-streaming mailing list > >>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > >> > >> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: > >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > >> Dr. Walter Olthoff > >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > >> > >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > >> - > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > Gesch?ftsf?hrung: > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > Dr. Walter Olthoff > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - From slusallek at cs.uni-saarland.de Fri Jul 20 13:59:46 2012 From: slusallek at cs.uni-saarland.de (Philipp Slusallek) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:59:46 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] [FI-PPP AB] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> <5007E9B5.1050702@dfki.de> <5008EFE9.8030306@dfki.de> Message-ID: <50094832.6070701@cs.uni-saarland.de> Hi, Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: > Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: > - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if something happens in the scene) > - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) > - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) > For the next release, we plan to implement: > - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from frame to frame in a video stream) > > I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: > 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video streams, > 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the > description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a > way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of > the two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything substantial about it or to what degree its features would become available as a GE. > On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid > duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools > usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally > designed for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by > SAFECITY). If you believe that the functionality offered by codoan > (i.e., as realized as low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is > not sufficient for your purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you > want to do image analysis, not video analysis, or if you need > analysis of uncompressed material), please keep the requirement in > the Open Call. However, here we should be more precise what we > exactly demand. What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But maybe I am wrong. They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the communication seems not to work too well here. Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is > not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be > reflected in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the > "object tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the > wiki already some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this > resource in my mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I > guess this a topic for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the > AB. Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be > resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there > is a general problem. Thanks. > I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. No problem. Best, Philipp > Kind regards > Peter > > > > > > However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] >> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 >> To: Amon, Peter >> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >> >> Hi, >> >> Thank you very much, Peter. >> >> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is touching >> on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the >> UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and >> which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise >> this conversation to the attention of the AB. >> >> >> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in terms >> of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in general >> terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As >> we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high >> level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to >> be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as >> other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what >> is in the vision. >> >> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia >> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is >> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has >> been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain >> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will be >> something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. >> >> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki >> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a >> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". How >> about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of >> listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, >> I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. >> >> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs >> in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing >> GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming >> so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very >> concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete info >> about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object >> segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia >> analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one only >> works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what >> type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work >> with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to >> someone who wants to apply your GE. >> >> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did >> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to >> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level >> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was not >> adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But that >> is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been >> so much more helpful. >> >> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what >> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? >> >> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the >> base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" >> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: codoan >> is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more >> details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links >> to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" >> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. >> >> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to the >> GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in the >> GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back >> to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I >> would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that people >> do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people >> to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) >> and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be in >> a GE. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Philipp >> >> >> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: >>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview >> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the >> FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like >> for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the >> functionality for the GE. >>> >>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled >> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future >> planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided >> by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the >> development process for FI-WARE GEs. >>> >>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open >> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview >> for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it >> includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White >> Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >> streaming- >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, >>>>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the >>>>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus >>>>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be >>>>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of >> what >>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs >>>> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based >>>> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Philipp >>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Sofia >>>>> >>>>> *************************************************** >>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>>>> sofia at ieee.org >>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>>>> *************************************************** >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- >> request at lists.fi- >>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> >>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>> >> >>> et> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Dear Denis, all, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>>>> >>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving >>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background >>>> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the >> codoan >>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt >>>> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>>>> >>>>> My proposal: >>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >>>> estimation" >>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, >>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, >>>> animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) >>>>> >>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>>>> >>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >>>> (only a vocabulary correction) >>>>> >>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the >> Storage >>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>>>> Regards >>>>> Denis Mischler >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> ********************************************** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>> >>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>> >>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >>>> - >> >> >> -- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >> >> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - > > _______________________________________________ > Ab mailing list > Ab at fi-ppp.eu > http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: slusallek.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 441 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sots at ait.gr Fri Jul 20 16:01:20 2012 From: sots at ait.gr (Sofia Tsekeridou) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:01:20 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 Message-ID: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4B26@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Dear Peter, Philipp, all, To contribute to the discussion further, I agree with Philipp that if more detailed information for Fiware GEs is provided and the means to be notified and easily locate the changes introduced by Fiware developers, then it will be easier for Use Case projects to assess what further requirements are posed from their side for a full Fiware-enabled implementation of their envisioned applications. Of course, this is not only the case for the Multimedia Analysis GE, as Philipp mentioned, but of the majority of GEs descriptions and the updating of their status and plans for future releases. Coming now to the specific issues of the Streaming GE WG and their additional requirements with respect to content analysis and processing (video, image, audio, 3D), I suggest that I make a first attempt to update the description in the latest version of the Streaming GE document based on the updated information that Peter has mentioned on the Multimedia Analysis GE, both codoan and White Diamond, so as to reflect requirements that are not currently addressed by the latter by next Tuesday. Then the Streaming WG as well as Peter or other Fiware representatives could potentially comment/contribute further. On the above, I agree with Philipp that requirements are very much dependent on the exact algorithms used as well as their performance/accuracy of detection per different context of use. Thus, such descriptions and experiments results under which contexts of use/deployment should be added in the Multimedia Analysis GE. This way we will better what additional algorithmic requirements we should ask for. I hereby quote a respective question/request for feedback that I have posted on the Fusion Forge tool - Peter could you please respond to it? ----------------------------- Date: 2012-07-05 13:37 Sender: Sofia Tsekeridou As discussed during the training week in June 2012 in Madrid, the following additional functionalities will be desirable to be available in Fiware Release 1 of the Multimedia Analysis GE: 1. Video decoding/re-encoding/transcoding/streaming 2. Person detection (perhaps also face?) Furthermore, a usage manual for the Multimedia Analysis GE with respect to algorithm parameters definition, value ranges, and contexts/constraints of use (e.g. camera settings, lightning conditions, indoor/outdoor settings, etc.), including performance information (how many camera streams can be processed in parallel, execution times, computing and memory needs, accuracy rates, etc.) will be much appreciated along with the 1st Release. Finally, we have discussed on using the Multimedia Analysis GE on the SafeCity Gateway during the real-life trials in Madrid in February 2013. Is it possible to get access to the respective code to do so as well as installation instructions? If yes, when will it be available? The issue is that it will be very bandwidth demanding to stream up to 4 HD compressed camera feeds to the Internet to have them processed by the Multimedia Analysis GE residing at the Seville testbed. ------------------------------ Many thanks in advance! With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu [mailto:ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:00 PM To: Amon, Peter Cc: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [FI-PPP AB] [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 Hi, Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: > Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: > - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if > something happens in the scene) > - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape > or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) > - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object > segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) For the next release, we plan to implement: > - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from > frame to frame in a video stream) > > I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in > the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in > the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was > wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the > wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid > there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: > 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video > streams, > 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the > description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a > way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of the > two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything substantial about it or to what degree its features would become available as a GE. > On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid > duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools > usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally designed > for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by SAFECITY). If you > believe that the functionality offered by codoan (i.e., as realized as > low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is not sufficient for your > purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you want to do image > analysis, not video analysis, or if you need analysis of uncompressed > material), please keep the requirement in the Open Call. However, here > we should be more precise what we exactly demand. What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But maybe I am wrong. They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the communication seems not to work too well here. Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is > not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be reflected > in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the "object > tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the wiki already > some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this resource in my > mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I guess this a topic > for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the AB. Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be > resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there > is a general problem. Thanks. > I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. No problem. Best, Philipp > Kind regards > Peter > > > > > > However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] >> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 >> To: Amon, Peter >> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue >> 3 >> >> Hi, >> >> Thank you very much, Peter. >> >> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is >> touching on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the >> AB, and the UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to >> many UCs and which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow >> me to raise this conversation to the attention of the AB. >> >> >> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in >> terms of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki >> in general terms. I happen to know about the information sources in >> the FI-PPP. As we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision >> is extremely high level and promises the moon, but as we found out in >> Madrid, we seem to be getting much less. Trying to find out what this >> is, is important as other work in the UCs will be based on what we >> will get and not on what is in the vision. >> >> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia >> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is >> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question >> has been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain >> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will >> be something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. >> >> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki >> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a >> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". >> How about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead >> of listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you >> see, I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. >> >> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new >> GEs in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the >> existing GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about >> what is coming so that we can even know about it and plan >> accordingly. We have very concrete use cases that we must implement >> and so need very concrete info about what will be offered. Simply >> saying "there will be moving object segmentation" is like saying >> nothing in the context of multimedia analysis. As we all know, there >> are tons of algorithms and each one only works for some specific >> scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what type of algorithms is >> being used and how this can be tweaked to work with various types of >> objects and environments, it is mostly useless to someone who wants to apply your GE. >> >> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did >> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to >> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level >> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was >> not adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. >> But that is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would >> have been so much more helpful. >> >> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what >> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? >> >> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of >> the base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" >> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: >> codoan is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision >> for more details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond >> has two links to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" >> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. >> >> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to >> the GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is >> in the GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with >> links back to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web >> after all). I would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests >> such that people do not ask for these things again. You cannot >> reasonably expect people to search the ticket data base (with its >> sub-optimal search interface) and wade through tickets to find out >> about things that may or will be in a GE. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Philipp >> >> >> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: >>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature >>> overview >> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on >> the FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added >> (like for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of >> the functionality for the GE. >>> >>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets >>> labeled >> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate >> future planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects >> (e.g., provided by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and >> included into the development process for FI-WARE GEs. >>> >>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open >> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general >> overview for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia >> Analysis GE it includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by >> Siemens and the "White Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >> streaming- >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, >>>> Issue 3 >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of >>>>> movement, speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. >>>>> shape of the moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify >>>>> rigid versus non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? >>>>> These may be better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of >> what >>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new >>>> GEs will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, >>>> pixel-based analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Philipp >>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Sofia >>>>> >>>>> *************************************************** >>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>>>> sofia at ieee.org >>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>>>> *************************************************** >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- >> request at lists.fi- >>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> >>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >>>>> specific than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>> >> > ens.n >>>> et> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Dear Denis, all, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>>>> >>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: >>>>> "Moving >>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also >>>> "Foreground/background estimation" and "Moving object >>>> identification") is supported by the >> codoan >>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I >>>> doubt that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>>>> >>>>> My proposal: >>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >>>> estimation" >>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, >>>>> suitcase, >>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, >>>> car, animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes >>>>> mode) >>>>> >>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>>>> >>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >>>> (only a vocabulary correction) >>>>> >>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the >> Storage >>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>>>> Regards >>>>> Denis Mischler >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> ********************************************** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >> -- >>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>> >>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>> >>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >> --- >>>> - >> >> >> -- >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) >> GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >> >> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> - > > _______________________________________________ > Ab mailing list > Ab at fi-ppp.eu > http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab > From sots at ait.gr Fri Jul 20 16:13:59 2012 From: sots at ait.gr (Sofia Tsekeridou) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:13:59 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4C62@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Dear Philipp, all, To answer your comments on SafeCity content analysis requirements in your earlier e-mail: 1. The analysis in the compressed domain are useful in SafeCity indeed as a pre-filter (envisioned to be performed at the SafeCity Gateway) to forward selected video segments/streams (in e.g. ones that activity has been detected) for further processing in the pixel domain and thus optimize both computing resources and bandwidth usage. 2. Indeed the analysis in crowded scenes requires significant processing and robust algorithms in the pixel domain - there of course we have a trade-off among robustness/efficiency and real-time processing --> the real need for a cloud infrastructure with high computing power. 3. In many cases, e.g. object detection, face identification, etc. depending on visual descriptors, we require image (instead of video) processing capabilities. I have already published the above (and other requirements) and issued respective tickets on Fusion Forge. With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________________ From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] Sent: 20 July 2012 17:02 To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu You can reach the person managing the list at fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: [FI-PPP AB] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 (Philipp Slusallek) 2. Re: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 (Sofia Tsekeridou) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:59:46 +0200 From: Philipp Slusallek To: "Amon, Peter" Cc: "ab at fi-ppp.eu" , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] [FI-PPP AB] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 Message-ID: <50094832.6070701 at cs.uni-saarland.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Hi, Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: > Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: > - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if something happens in the scene) > - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) > - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) > For the next release, we plan to implement: > - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from frame to frame in a video stream) > > I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: > 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video streams, > 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the > description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a > way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of > the two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything substantial about it or to what degree its features would become available as a GE. > On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid > duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools > usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally > designed for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by > SAFECITY). If you believe that the functionality offered by codoan > (i.e., as realized as low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is > not sufficient for your purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you > want to do image analysis, not video analysis, or if you need > analysis of uncompressed material), please keep the requirement in > the Open Call. However, here we should be more precise what we > exactly demand. What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But maybe I am wrong. They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the communication seems not to work too well here. Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is > not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be > reflected in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the > "object tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the > wiki already some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this > resource in my mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I > guess this a topic for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the > AB. Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be > resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there > is a general problem. Thanks. > I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. No problem. Best, Philipp > Kind regards > Peter > > > > > > However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] >> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 >> To: Amon, Peter >> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >> >> Hi, >> >> Thank you very much, Peter. >> >> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is touching >> on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the >> UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and >> which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise >> this conversation to the attention of the AB. >> >> >> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in terms >> of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in general >> terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As >> we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high >> level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to >> be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as >> other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what >> is in the vision. >> >> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia >> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is >> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has >> been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain >> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will be >> something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. >> >> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki >> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a >> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". How >> about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of >> listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, >> I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. >> >> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs >> in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing >> GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming >> so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very >> concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete info >> about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object >> segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia >> analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one only >> works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what >> type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work >> with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to >> someone who wants to apply your GE. >> >> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did >> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to >> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level >> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was not >> adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But that >> is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been >> so much more helpful. >> >> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what >> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? >> >> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the >> base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" >> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: codoan >> is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more >> details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links >> to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" >> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. >> >> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to the >> GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in the >> GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back >> to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I >> would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that people >> do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people >> to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) >> and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be in >> a GE. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Philipp >> >> >> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: >>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview >> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the >> FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like >> for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the >> functionality for the GE. >>> >>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled >> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future >> planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided >> by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the >> development process for FI-WARE GEs. >>> >>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open >> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview >> for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it >> includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White >> Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >> streaming- >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, >>>>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the >>>>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus >>>>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be >>>>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of >> what >>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs >>>> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based >>>> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Philipp >>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Sofia >>>>> >>>>> *************************************************** >>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>>>> sofia at ieee.org >>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>>>> *************************************************** >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- >> request at lists.fi- >>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> >>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>> >> >>> et> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Dear Denis, all, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>>>> >>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving >>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background >>>> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the >> codoan >>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt >>>> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>>>> >>>>> My proposal: >>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >>>> estimation" >>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, >>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, >>>> animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) >>>>> >>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>>>> >>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >>>> (only a vocabulary correction) >>>>> >>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the >> Storage >>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>>>> Regards >>>>> Denis Mischler >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> ********************************************** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>> >>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>> >>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >>>> - >> >> >> -- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >> >> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - > > _______________________________________________ > Ab mailing list > Ab at fi-ppp.eu > http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: slusallek.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 441 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:01:20 +0000 From: Sofia Tsekeridou To: Amon, Peter ?[p.amon at siemens.com]? , "Philipp Slusallek [slusallek at dfki.de]" Cc: "ab at fi-ppp.eu" , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 Message-ID: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4B26 at AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Dear Peter, Philipp, all, To contribute to the discussion further, I agree with Philipp that if more detailed information for Fiware GEs is provided and the means to be notified and easily locate the changes introduced by Fiware developers, then it will be easier for Use Case projects to assess what further requirements are posed from their side for a full Fiware-enabled implementation of their envisioned applications. Of course, this is not only the case for the Multimedia Analysis GE, as Philipp mentioned, but of the majority of GEs descriptions and the updating of their status and plans for future releases. Coming now to the specific issues of the Streaming GE WG and their additional requirements with respect to content analysis and processing (video, image, audio, 3D), I suggest that I make a first attempt to update the description in the latest version of the Streaming GE document based on the updated information that Peter has mentioned on the Multimedia Analysis GE, both codoan and White Diamond, so as to reflect requirements that are not currently addressed by the latter by next Tuesday. Then the Streaming WG as well as Peter or other Fiware representatives could potentially comment/contribute further. On the above, I agree with Philipp that requirements are very much dependent on the exact algorithms used as well as their performance/accuracy of detection per different context of use. Thus, such descriptions and experiments results under which contexts of use/deployment should be added in the Multimedia Analysis GE. This way we will better what additional algorithmic requirements we should ask for. I hereby quote a respective question/request for feedback that I have posted on the Fusion Forge tool - Peter could you please respond to it? ----------------------------- Date: 2012-07-05 13:37 Sender: Sofia Tsekeridou As discussed during the training week in June 2012 in Madrid, the following additional functionalities will be desirable to be available in Fiware Release 1 of the Multimedia Analysis GE: 1. Video decoding/re-encoding/transcoding/streaming 2. Person detection (perhaps also face?) Furthermore, a usage manual for the Multimedia Analysis GE with respect to algorithm parameters definition, value ranges, and contexts/constraints of use (e.g. camera settings, lightning conditions, indoor/outdoor settings, etc.), including performance information (how many camera streams can be processed in parallel, execution times, computing and memory needs, accuracy rates, etc.) will be much appreciated along with the 1st Release. Finally, we have discussed on using the Multimedia Analysis GE on the SafeCity Gateway during the real-life trials in Madrid in February 2013. Is it possible to get access to the respective code to do so as well as installation instructions? If yes, when will it be available? The issue is that it will be very bandwidth demanding to stream up to 4 HD compressed camera feeds to the Internet to have them processed by the Multimedia Analysis GE residing at the Seville testbed. ------------------------------ Many thanks in advance! With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu [mailto:ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:00 PM To: Amon, Peter Cc: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu Subject: Re: [FI-PPP AB] [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 Hi, Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: > Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: > - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if > something happens in the scene) > - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape > or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) > - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object > segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) For the next release, we plan to implement: > - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from > frame to frame in a video stream) > > I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in > the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in > the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was > wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the > wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid > there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: > 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video > streams, > 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the > description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a > way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of the > two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything substantial about it or to what degree its features would become available as a GE. > On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid > duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools > usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally designed > for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by SAFECITY). If you > believe that the functionality offered by codoan (i.e., as realized as > low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is not sufficient for your > purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you want to do image > analysis, not video analysis, or if you need analysis of uncompressed > material), please keep the requirement in the Open Call. However, here > we should be more precise what we exactly demand. What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But maybe I am wrong. They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the communication seems not to work too well here. Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is > not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be reflected > in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the "object > tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the wiki already > some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this resource in my > mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I guess this a topic > for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the AB. Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be > resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there > is a general problem. Thanks. > I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. No problem. Best, Philipp > Kind regards > Peter > > > > > > However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] >> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 >> To: Amon, Peter >> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue >> 3 >> >> Hi, >> >> Thank you very much, Peter. >> >> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is >> touching on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the >> AB, and the UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to >> many UCs and which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow >> me to raise this conversation to the attention of the AB. >> >> >> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in >> terms of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki >> in general terms. I happen to know about the information sources in >> the FI-PPP. As we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision >> is extremely high level and promises the moon, but as we found out in >> Madrid, we seem to be getting much less. Trying to find out what this >> is, is important as other work in the UCs will be based on what we >> will get and not on what is in the vision. >> >> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia >> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is >> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question >> has been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain >> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will >> be something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. >> >> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki >> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a >> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". >> How about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead >> of listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you >> see, I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. >> >> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new >> GEs in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the >> existing GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about >> what is coming so that we can even know about it and plan >> accordingly. We have very concrete use cases that we must implement >> and so need very concrete info about what will be offered. Simply >> saying "there will be moving object segmentation" is like saying >> nothing in the context of multimedia analysis. As we all know, there >> are tons of algorithms and each one only works for some specific >> scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what type of algorithms is >> being used and how this can be tweaked to work with various types of >> objects and environments, it is mostly useless to someone who wants to apply your GE. >> >> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did >> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to >> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level >> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was >> not adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. >> But that is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would >> have been so much more helpful. >> >> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what >> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? >> >> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of >> the base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" >> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: >> codoan is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision >> for more details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond >> has two links to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" >> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. >> >> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to >> the GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is >> in the GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with >> links back to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web >> after all). I would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests >> such that people do not ask for these things again. You cannot >> reasonably expect people to search the ticket data base (with its >> sub-optimal search interface) and wade through tickets to find out >> about things that may or will be in a GE. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Philipp >> >> >> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: >>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature >>> overview >> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on >> the FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added >> (like for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of >> the functionality for the GE. >>> >>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets >>> labeled >> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate >> future planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects >> (e.g., provided by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and >> included into the development process for FI-WARE GEs. >>> >>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open >> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general >> overview for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia >> Analysis GE it includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by >> Siemens and the "White Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >> streaming- >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, >>>> Issue 3 >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of >>>>> movement, speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. >>>>> shape of the moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify >>>>> rigid versus non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? >>>>> These may be better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of >> what >>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new >>>> GEs will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, >>>> pixel-based analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Philipp >>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Sofia >>>>> >>>>> *************************************************** >>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>>>> sofia at ieee.org >>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>>>> *************************************************** >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- >> request at lists.fi- >>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> >>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >>>>> specific than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>> >> > ens.n >>>> et> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Dear Denis, all, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>>>> >>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: >>>>> "Moving >>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also >>>> "Foreground/background estimation" and "Moving object >>>> identification") is supported by the >> codoan >>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I >>>> doubt that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>>>> >>>>> My proposal: >>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >>>> estimation" >>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, >>>>> suitcase, >>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, >>>> car, animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes >>>>> mode) >>>>> >>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>>>> >>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >>>> (only a vocabulary correction) >>>>> >>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the >> Storage >>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>>>> Regards >>>>> Denis Mischler >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> ********************************************** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >> -- >>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>> >>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>> >>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >> --- >>>> - >> >> >> -- >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) >> GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >> >> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> - > > _______________________________________________ > Ab mailing list > Ab at fi-ppp.eu > http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Fiware-streaming mailing list Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 ********************************************** From slusallek at dfki.de Fri Jul 20 16:31:08 2012 From: slusallek at dfki.de (Philipp Slusallek) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:31:08 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4C62@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4C62@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <50096BAC.2090208@dfki.de> Hi Sofia, all, Thanks for the confirmation and thanks for summarizing your requirements. Let me mention what I have presented already in the last AB meeting: Namely that we are covering high-performance image/video processing also in the UserInterface/AugmentedReality use case that is likely going into the second call. At the last AB meeting we have agreed to keep the analysis aspects of the two GEs (Streaming and UI) separate for the call but might merge them once we have the submissions available (depending on reviewer comments). For your information, I am attaching the slides I used in the AB meeting to present the UI-GE. You see our proposal (mainly for AR, but the technology behind this would be much more general), specifically the Epics on Dataflpw-Processing and HW-Support but the other epics might provide some context for the use case. Note, that the GE defines services that will have to run not only inthe cloud but also on small devices (smart phone, tablet, but equally well on a device embedded with a camera). Also note, that we define full programmability in addition to configurability from a set of predefined "kernels". Due to our real-time requirements all of this is designed to run with lowest latency requirements in order to get the best user experience (specifically not make them get sick :-). As mentioned in the slides, I think this largely covers also your use cases so that I see a lot of overlap here. But again, we will likely revisit this after we have the proposals in. Best, Philipp Am 20.07.2012 16:13, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: > Dear Philipp, all, > > To answer your comments on SafeCity content analysis requirements in your earlier e-mail: > > 1. The analysis in the compressed domain are useful in SafeCity indeed as a pre-filter (envisioned to be performed at the SafeCity Gateway) to forward selected video segments/streams (in e.g. ones that activity has been detected) for further processing in the pixel domain and thus optimize both computing resources and bandwidth usage. > > 2. Indeed the analysis in crowded scenes requires significant processing and robust algorithms in the pixel domain - there of course we have a trade-off among robustness/efficiency and real-time processing --> the real need for a cloud infrastructure with high computing power. > > 3. In many cases, e.g. object detection, face identification, etc. depending on visual descriptors, we require image (instead of video) processing capabilities. > > I have already published the above (and other requirements) and issued respective tickets on Fusion Forge. > > With warm regards, > > Sofia > > *************************************************** > Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > Assistant Professor > Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > Athens Information Technology - AIT > 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > E-mail: sots at ait.gr > sofia at ieee.org > Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > *************************************************** > > ________________________________________ > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > Sent: 20 July 2012 17:02 > To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 > > Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [FI-PPP AB] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > (Philipp Slusallek) > 2. Re: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 (Sofia Tsekeridou) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:59:46 +0200 > From: Philipp Slusallek > To: "Amon, Peter" > Cc: "ab at fi-ppp.eu" , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] [FI-PPP AB] Fiware-streaming Digest, > Vol 4, Issue 3 > Message-ID: <50094832.6070701 at cs.uni-saarland.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Hi, > > Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: >> Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: >> - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if something happens in the scene) >> - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) >> - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) >> For the next release, we plan to implement: >> - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from frame to frame in a video stream) >> >> I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) > > Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in > this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require > analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > >> I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: >> 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video streams, >> 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > >> White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the >> description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a >> way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of >> the two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. > > As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is > the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not > put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available > in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This > seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything > substantial about it or to what degree its features would become > available as a GE. > >> On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid >> duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools >> usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally >> designed for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by >> SAFECITY). If you believe that the functionality offered by codoan >> (i.e., as realized as low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is >> not sufficient for your purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you >> want to do image analysis, not video analysis, or if you need >> analysis of uncompressed material), please keep the requirement in >> the Open Call. However, here we should be more precise what we >> exactly demand. > > What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their > main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be > able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But > maybe I am wrong. > > They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is > very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a > result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems > to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC > requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for > about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the > communication seems not to work too well here. > > Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant > personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key > issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most > discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight > a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > >> On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is >> not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be >> reflected in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the >> "object tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the >> wiki already some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this >> resource in my mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I >> guess this a topic for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the >> AB. > > Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > >> If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be >> resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there >> is a general problem. > > Thanks. > >> I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. > > No problem. > > > Best, > > Philipp > >> Kind regards >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] >>> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 >>> To: Amon, Peter >>> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu >>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thank you very much, Peter. >>> >>> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is touching >>> on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the >>> UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and >>> which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise >>> this conversation to the attention of the AB. >>> >>> >>> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in terms >>> of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in general >>> terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As >>> we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high >>> level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to >>> be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as >>> other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what >>> is in the vision. >>> >>> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia >>> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is >>> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has >>> been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain >>> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will be >>> something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. >>> >>> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki >>> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a >>> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". How >>> about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of >>> listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, >>> I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. >>> >>> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs >>> in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing >>> GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming >>> so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very >>> concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete info >>> about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object >>> segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia >>> analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one only >>> works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what >>> type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work >>> with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to >>> someone who wants to apply your GE. >>> >>> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did >>> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to >>> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level >>> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was not >>> adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But that >>> is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been >>> so much more helpful. >>> >>> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what >>> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? >>> >>> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the >>> base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" >>> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: codoan >>> is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more >>> details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links >>> to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" >>> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. >>> >>> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to the >>> GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in the >>> GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back >>> to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I >>> would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that people >>> do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people >>> to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) >>> and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be in >>> a GE. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Philipp >>> >>> >>> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: >>>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview >>> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the >>> FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like >>> for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the >>> functionality for the GE. >>>> >>>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled >>> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future >>> planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided >>> by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the >>> development process for FI-WARE GEs. >>>> >>>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open >>> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview >>> for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it >>> includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White >>> Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>> streaming- >>>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >>>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >>>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, >>>>>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the >>>>>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus >>>>>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be >>>>>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >>>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of >>> what >>>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs >>>>> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based >>>>> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Philipp >>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sofia >>>>>> >>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>>>>> sofia at ieee.org >>>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >>>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- >>> request at lists.fi- >>>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 1 >>>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> et> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Denis, all, >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>>>>> >>>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving >>>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background >>>>> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the >>> codoan >>>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >>>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt >>>>> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>>>>> >>>>>> My proposal: >>>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >>>>> estimation" >>>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, >>>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, >>>>> animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >>>>> (only a vocabulary correction) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the >>> Storage >>>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Denis Mischler >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: >>>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>>> ********************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -- >>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>> >>>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>> >>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --- >>>>> - >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>> >>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>> >>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ab mailing list >> Ab at fi-ppp.eu >> http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: slusallek.vcf > Type: text/x-vcard > Size: 441 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:01:20 +0000 > From: Sofia Tsekeridou > To: Amon, Peter ?[p.amon at siemens.com]? , "Philipp > Slusallek [slusallek at dfki.de]" > Cc: "ab at fi-ppp.eu" , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue > 3 > Message-ID: > <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4B26 at AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" > > Dear Peter, Philipp, all, > > To contribute to the discussion further, I agree with Philipp that if more detailed information for Fiware GEs is provided and the means to be notified and easily locate the changes introduced by Fiware developers, then it will be easier for Use Case projects to assess what further requirements are posed from their side for a full Fiware-enabled implementation of their envisioned applications. Of course, this is not only the case for the Multimedia Analysis GE, as Philipp mentioned, but of the majority of GEs descriptions and the updating of their status and plans for future releases. > > Coming now to the specific issues of the Streaming GE WG and their additional requirements with respect to content analysis and processing (video, image, audio, 3D), I suggest that I make a first attempt to update the description in the latest version of the Streaming GE document based on the updated information that Peter has mentioned on the Multimedia Analysis GE, both codoan and White Diamond, so as to reflect requirements that are not currently addressed by the latter by next Tuesday. Then the Streaming WG as well as Peter or other Fiware representatives could potentially comment/contribute further. > > On the above, I agree with Philipp that requirements are very much dependent on the exact algorithms used as well as their performance/accuracy of detection per different context of use. Thus, such descriptions and experiments results under which contexts of use/deployment should be added in the Multimedia Analysis GE. This way we will better what additional algorithmic requirements we should ask for. I hereby quote a respective question/request for feedback that I have posted on the Fusion Forge tool - Peter could you please respond to it? > > ----------------------------- > Date: 2012-07-05 13:37 > Sender: Sofia Tsekeridou > > As discussed during the training week in June 2012 in Madrid, the following additional functionalities will be desirable to be available in Fiware Release 1 of the Multimedia Analysis GE: > 1. Video decoding/re-encoding/transcoding/streaming > 2. Person detection (perhaps also face?) > Furthermore, a usage manual for the Multimedia Analysis GE with respect to algorithm parameters definition, value ranges, and contexts/constraints of use (e.g. camera settings, lightning conditions, indoor/outdoor settings, etc.), including performance information (how many camera streams can be processed in parallel, execution times, computing and memory needs, accuracy rates, etc.) will be much appreciated along with the 1st Release. > Finally, we have discussed on using the Multimedia Analysis GE on the SafeCity Gateway during the real-life trials in Madrid in February 2013. Is it possible to get access to the respective code to do so as well as installation instructions? If yes, when will it be available? The issue is that it will be very bandwidth demanding to stream up to 4 HD compressed camera feeds to the Internet to have them processed by the Multimedia Analysis GE residing at the Seville testbed. > ------------------------------ > > Many thanks in advance! > > With warm regards, > > Sofia > *************************************************** > Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > Assistant Professor > Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > Athens Information Technology - AIT > 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > E-mail: sots at ait.gr > sofia at ieee.org > Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > *************************************************** > > -----Original Message----- > From: ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu [mailto:ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:00 PM > To: Amon, Peter > Cc: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [FI-PPP AB] [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Hi, > > Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: >> Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: >> - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if >> something happens in the scene) >> - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape >> or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) >> - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object >> segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) For the next release, we plan to implement: >> - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from >> frame to frame in a video stream) >> >> I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in >> the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in >> the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was >> wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the >> wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid >> there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) > > Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > >> I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: >> 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video >> streams, >> 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > >> White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the >> description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a >> way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of the >> two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. > > As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything substantial about it or to what degree its features would become available as a GE. > >> On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid >> duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools >> usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally designed >> for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by SAFECITY). If you >> believe that the functionality offered by codoan (i.e., as realized as >> low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is not sufficient for your >> purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you want to do image >> analysis, not video analysis, or if you need analysis of uncompressed >> material), please keep the requirement in the Open Call. However, here >> we should be more precise what we exactly demand. > > What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But maybe I am wrong. > > They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the communication seems not to work too well here. > > Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > >> On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is >> not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be reflected >> in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the "object >> tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the wiki already >> some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this resource in my >> mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I guess this a topic >> for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the AB. > > Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > >> If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be >> resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there >> is a general problem. > > Thanks. > >> I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. > > No problem. > > > Best, > > Philipp > >> Kind regards >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] >>> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 >>> To: Amon, Peter >>> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu >>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue >>> 3 >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thank you very much, Peter. >>> >>> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is >>> touching on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the >>> AB, and the UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to >>> many UCs and which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow >>> me to raise this conversation to the attention of the AB. >>> >>> >>> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in >>> terms of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki >>> in general terms. I happen to know about the information sources in >>> the FI-PPP. As we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision >>> is extremely high level and promises the moon, but as we found out in >>> Madrid, we seem to be getting much less. Trying to find out what this >>> is, is important as other work in the UCs will be based on what we >>> will get and not on what is in the vision. >>> >>> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia >>> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is >>> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question >>> has been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain >>> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will >>> be something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. >>> >>> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki >>> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a >>> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". >>> How about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead >>> of listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you >>> see, I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. >>> >>> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new >>> GEs in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the >>> existing GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about >>> what is coming so that we can even know about it and plan >>> accordingly. We have very concrete use cases that we must implement >>> and so need very concrete info about what will be offered. Simply >>> saying "there will be moving object segmentation" is like saying >>> nothing in the context of multimedia analysis. As we all know, there >>> are tons of algorithms and each one only works for some specific >>> scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what type of algorithms is >>> being used and how this can be tweaked to work with various types of >>> objects and environments, it is mostly useless to someone who wants to apply your GE. >>> >>> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did >>> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to >>> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level >>> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was >>> not adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. >>> But that is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would >>> have been so much more helpful. >>> >>> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what >>> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? >>> >>> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of >>> the base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" >>> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: >>> codoan is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision >>> for more details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond >>> has two links to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" >>> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. >>> >>> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to >>> the GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is >>> in the GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with >>> links back to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web >>> after all). I would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests >>> such that people do not ask for these things again. You cannot >>> reasonably expect people to search the ticket data base (with its >>> sub-optimal search interface) and wade through tickets to find out >>> about things that may or will be in a GE. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Philipp >>> >>> >>> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: >>>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature >>>> overview >>> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on >>> the FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added >>> (like for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of >>> the functionality for the GE. >>>> >>>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets >>>> labeled >>> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate >>> future planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects >>> (e.g., provided by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and >>> included into the development process for FI-WARE GEs. >>>> >>>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open >>> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general >>> overview for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia >>> Analysis GE it includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by >>> Siemens and the "White Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>> streaming- >>>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >>>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >>>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, >>>>> Issue 3 >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of >>>>>> movement, speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. >>>>>> shape of the moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify >>>>>> rigid versus non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? >>>>>> These may be better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >>>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of >>> what >>>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new >>>>> GEs will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, >>>>> pixel-based analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Philipp >>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sofia >>>>>> >>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>>>>> sofia at ieee.org >>>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >>>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- >>> request at lists.fi- >>>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >>>>>> specific than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 1 >>>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >> ens.n >>>>> et> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Denis, all, >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>>>>> >>>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: >>>>>> "Moving >>>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also >>>>> "Foreground/background estimation" and "Moving object >>>>> identification") is supported by the >>> codoan >>>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >>>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I >>>>> doubt that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>>>>> >>>>>> My proposal: >>>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >>>>> estimation" >>>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, >>>>>> suitcase, >>>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, >>>>> car, animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes >>>>>> mode) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >>>>> (only a vocabulary correction) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the >>> Storage >>>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Denis Mischler >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>>> scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: >>>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>>> ********************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---- >>> -- >>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>> >>>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>> >>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---- >>> --- >>>>> - >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) >>> GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>> >>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>> >>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>> - >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ab mailing list >> Ab at fi-ppp.eu >> http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-streaming mailing list > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > > > End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 > ********************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-streaming mailing list > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern Gesch?ftsf?hrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FI-AB-3DUI.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 5560680 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: slusallek.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 441 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sots at ait.gr Fri Jul 20 16:47:32 2012 From: sots at ait.gr (Sofia Tsekeridou) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:47:32 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <50096BAC.2090208@dfki.de> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4C62@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>, <50096BAC.2090208@dfki.de> Message-ID: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4E3B@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Many thanks, indeed, Philipp for informing me. I will read through the document you have provided, and if it is OK with you, I could give you some feedback from our viewpoint early next week. Have a nice weekend! Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________________ From: Philipp Slusallek [slusallek at dfki.de] Sent: 20 July 2012 17:31 To: Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 Hi Sofia, all, Thanks for the confirmation and thanks for summarizing your requirements. Let me mention what I have presented already in the last AB meeting: Namely that we are covering high-performance image/video processing also in the UserInterface/AugmentedReality use case that is likely going into the second call. At the last AB meeting we have agreed to keep the analysis aspects of the two GEs (Streaming and UI) separate for the call but might merge them once we have the submissions available (depending on reviewer comments). For your information, I am attaching the slides I used in the AB meeting to present the UI-GE. You see our proposal (mainly for AR, but the technology behind this would be much more general), specifically the Epics on Dataflpw-Processing and HW-Support but the other epics might provide some context for the use case. Note, that the GE defines services that will have to run not only inthe cloud but also on small devices (smart phone, tablet, but equally well on a device embedded with a camera). Also note, that we define full programmability in addition to configurability from a set of predefined "kernels". Due to our real-time requirements all of this is designed to run with lowest latency requirements in order to get the best user experience (specifically not make them get sick :-). As mentioned in the slides, I think this largely covers also your use cases so that I see a lot of overlap here. But again, we will likely revisit this after we have the proposals in. Best, Philipp Am 20.07.2012 16:13, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: > Dear Philipp, all, > > To answer your comments on SafeCity content analysis requirements in your earlier e-mail: > > 1. The analysis in the compressed domain are useful in SafeCity indeed as a pre-filter (envisioned to be performed at the SafeCity Gateway) to forward selected video segments/streams (in e.g. ones that activity has been detected) for further processing in the pixel domain and thus optimize both computing resources and bandwidth usage. > > 2. Indeed the analysis in crowded scenes requires significant processing and robust algorithms in the pixel domain - there of course we have a trade-off among robustness/efficiency and real-time processing --> the real need for a cloud infrastructure with high computing power. > > 3. In many cases, e.g. object detection, face identification, etc. depending on visual descriptors, we require image (instead of video) processing capabilities. > > I have already published the above (and other requirements) and issued respective tickets on Fusion Forge. > > With warm regards, > > Sofia > > *************************************************** > Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > Assistant Professor > Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > Athens Information Technology - AIT > 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > E-mail: sots at ait.gr > sofia at ieee.org > Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > *************************************************** > > ________________________________________ > From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > Sent: 20 July 2012 17:02 > To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 > > Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [FI-PPP AB] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > (Philipp Slusallek) > 2. Re: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 (Sofia Tsekeridou) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:59:46 +0200 > From: Philipp Slusallek > To: "Amon, Peter" > Cc: "ab at fi-ppp.eu" , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] [FI-PPP AB] Fiware-streaming Digest, > Vol 4, Issue 3 > Message-ID: <50094832.6070701 at cs.uni-saarland.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Hi, > > Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: >> Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: >> - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if something happens in the scene) >> - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) >> - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) >> For the next release, we plan to implement: >> - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from frame to frame in a video stream) >> >> I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) > > Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in > this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require > analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > >> I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: >> 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video streams, >> 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > >> White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the >> description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a >> way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of >> the two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. > > As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is > the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not > put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available > in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This > seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything > substantial about it or to what degree its features would become > available as a GE. > >> On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid >> duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools >> usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally >> designed for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by >> SAFECITY). If you believe that the functionality offered by codoan >> (i.e., as realized as low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is >> not sufficient for your purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you >> want to do image analysis, not video analysis, or if you need >> analysis of uncompressed material), please keep the requirement in >> the Open Call. However, here we should be more precise what we >> exactly demand. > > What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their > main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be > able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But > maybe I am wrong. > > They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is > very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a > result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems > to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC > requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for > about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the > communication seems not to work too well here. > > Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant > personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key > issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most > discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight > a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > >> On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is >> not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be >> reflected in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the >> "object tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the >> wiki already some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this >> resource in my mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I >> guess this a topic for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the >> AB. > > Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > >> If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be >> resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there >> is a general problem. > > Thanks. > >> I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. > > No problem. > > > Best, > > Philipp > >> Kind regards >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] >>> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 >>> To: Amon, Peter >>> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu >>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thank you very much, Peter. >>> >>> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is touching >>> on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the >>> UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and >>> which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise >>> this conversation to the attention of the AB. >>> >>> >>> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in terms >>> of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in general >>> terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As >>> we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high >>> level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to >>> be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as >>> other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what >>> is in the vision. >>> >>> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia >>> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is >>> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has >>> been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain >>> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will be >>> something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. >>> >>> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki >>> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a >>> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". How >>> about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of >>> listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, >>> I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. >>> >>> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs >>> in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing >>> GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming >>> so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very >>> concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete info >>> about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object >>> segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia >>> analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one only >>> works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what >>> type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work >>> with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to >>> someone who wants to apply your GE. >>> >>> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did >>> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to >>> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level >>> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was not >>> adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But that >>> is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been >>> so much more helpful. >>> >>> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what >>> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? >>> >>> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the >>> base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" >>> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: codoan >>> is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more >>> details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links >>> to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" >>> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. >>> >>> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to the >>> GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in the >>> GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back >>> to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I >>> would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that people >>> do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people >>> to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) >>> and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be in >>> a GE. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Philipp >>> >>> >>> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: >>>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview >>> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the >>> FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like >>> for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the >>> functionality for the GE. >>>> >>>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled >>> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future >>> planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided >>> by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the >>> development process for FI-WARE GEs. >>>> >>>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open >>> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview >>> for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it >>> includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White >>> Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>> streaming- >>>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >>>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >>>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, >>>>>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the >>>>>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus >>>>>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be >>>>>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >>>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of >>> what >>>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs >>>>> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based >>>>> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Philipp >>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sofia >>>>>> >>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>>>>> sofia at ieee.org >>>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >>>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- >>> request at lists.fi- >>>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 1 >>>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> et> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Denis, all, >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>>>>> >>>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving >>>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background >>>>> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the >>> codoan >>>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >>>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt >>>>> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>>>>> >>>>>> My proposal: >>>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >>>>> estimation" >>>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, >>>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, >>>>> animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >>>>> (only a vocabulary correction) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the >>> Storage >>>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Denis Mischler >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: >>>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>>> ********************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -- >>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>> >>>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>> >>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --- >>>>> - >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>> >>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>> >>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ab mailing list >> Ab at fi-ppp.eu >> http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: slusallek.vcf > Type: text/x-vcard > Size: 441 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:01:20 +0000 > From: Sofia Tsekeridou > To: Amon, Peter ?[p.amon at siemens.com]? , "Philipp > Slusallek [slusallek at dfki.de]" > Cc: "ab at fi-ppp.eu" , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue > 3 > Message-ID: > <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4B26 at AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" > > Dear Peter, Philipp, all, > > To contribute to the discussion further, I agree with Philipp that if more detailed information for Fiware GEs is provided and the means to be notified and easily locate the changes introduced by Fiware developers, then it will be easier for Use Case projects to assess what further requirements are posed from their side for a full Fiware-enabled implementation of their envisioned applications. Of course, this is not only the case for the Multimedia Analysis GE, as Philipp mentioned, but of the majority of GEs descriptions and the updating of their status and plans for future releases. > > Coming now to the specific issues of the Streaming GE WG and their additional requirements with respect to content analysis and processing (video, image, audio, 3D), I suggest that I make a first attempt to update the description in the latest version of the Streaming GE document based on the updated information that Peter has mentioned on the Multimedia Analysis GE, both codoan and White Diamond, so as to reflect requirements that are not currently addressed by the latter by next Tuesday. Then the Streaming WG as well as Peter or other Fiware representatives could potentially comment/contribute further. > > On the above, I agree with Philipp that requirements are very much dependent on the exact algorithms used as well as their performance/accuracy of detection per different context of use. Thus, such descriptions and experiments results under which contexts of use/deployment should be added in the Multimedia Analysis GE. This way we will better what additional algorithmic requirements we should ask for. I hereby quote a respective question/request for feedback that I have posted on the Fusion Forge tool - Peter could you please respond to it? > > ----------------------------- > Date: 2012-07-05 13:37 > Sender: Sofia Tsekeridou > > As discussed during the training week in June 2012 in Madrid, the following additional functionalities will be desirable to be available in Fiware Release 1 of the Multimedia Analysis GE: > 1. Video decoding/re-encoding/transcoding/streaming > 2. Person detection (perhaps also face?) > Furthermore, a usage manual for the Multimedia Analysis GE with respect to algorithm parameters definition, value ranges, and contexts/constraints of use (e.g. camera settings, lightning conditions, indoor/outdoor settings, etc.), including performance information (how many camera streams can be processed in parallel, execution times, computing and memory needs, accuracy rates, etc.) will be much appreciated along with the 1st Release. > Finally, we have discussed on using the Multimedia Analysis GE on the SafeCity Gateway during the real-life trials in Madrid in February 2013. Is it possible to get access to the respective code to do so as well as installation instructions? If yes, when will it be available? The issue is that it will be very bandwidth demanding to stream up to 4 HD compressed camera feeds to the Internet to have them processed by the Multimedia Analysis GE residing at the Seville testbed. > ------------------------------ > > Many thanks in advance! > > With warm regards, > > Sofia > *************************************************** > Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > Assistant Professor > Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > Athens Information Technology - AIT > 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > E-mail: sots at ait.gr > sofia at ieee.org > Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > *************************************************** > > -----Original Message----- > From: ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu [mailto:ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:00 PM > To: Amon, Peter > Cc: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [FI-PPP AB] [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Hi, > > Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: >> Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: >> - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if >> something happens in the scene) >> - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape >> or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) >> - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object >> segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) For the next release, we plan to implement: >> - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from >> frame to frame in a video stream) >> >> I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in >> the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in >> the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was >> wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the >> wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid >> there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) > > Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > >> I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: >> 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video >> streams, >> 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > >> White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the >> description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a >> way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of the >> two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. > > As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything substantial about it or to what degree its features would become available as a GE. > >> On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid >> duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools >> usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally designed >> for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by SAFECITY). If you >> believe that the functionality offered by codoan (i.e., as realized as >> low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is not sufficient for your >> purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you want to do image >> analysis, not video analysis, or if you need analysis of uncompressed >> material), please keep the requirement in the Open Call. However, here >> we should be more precise what we exactly demand. > > What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But maybe I am wrong. > > They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the communication seems not to work too well here. > > Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > >> On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is >> not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be reflected >> in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the "object >> tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the wiki already >> some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this resource in my >> mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I guess this a topic >> for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the AB. > > Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > >> If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be >> resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there >> is a general problem. > > Thanks. > >> I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. > > No problem. > > > Best, > > Philipp > >> Kind regards >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] >>> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 >>> To: Amon, Peter >>> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu >>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue >>> 3 >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thank you very much, Peter. >>> >>> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is >>> touching on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the >>> AB, and the UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to >>> many UCs and which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow >>> me to raise this conversation to the attention of the AB. >>> >>> >>> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in >>> terms of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki >>> in general terms. I happen to know about the information sources in >>> the FI-PPP. As we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision >>> is extremely high level and promises the moon, but as we found out in >>> Madrid, we seem to be getting much less. Trying to find out what this >>> is, is important as other work in the UCs will be based on what we >>> will get and not on what is in the vision. >>> >>> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia >>> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is >>> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question >>> has been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain >>> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will >>> be something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. >>> >>> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki >>> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a >>> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". >>> How about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead >>> of listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you >>> see, I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. >>> >>> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new >>> GEs in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the >>> existing GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about >>> what is coming so that we can even know about it and plan >>> accordingly. We have very concrete use cases that we must implement >>> and so need very concrete info about what will be offered. Simply >>> saying "there will be moving object segmentation" is like saying >>> nothing in the context of multimedia analysis. As we all know, there >>> are tons of algorithms and each one only works for some specific >>> scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what type of algorithms is >>> being used and how this can be tweaked to work with various types of >>> objects and environments, it is mostly useless to someone who wants to apply your GE. >>> >>> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did >>> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to >>> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level >>> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was >>> not adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. >>> But that is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would >>> have been so much more helpful. >>> >>> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what >>> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? >>> >>> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of >>> the base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" >>> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: >>> codoan is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision >>> for more details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond >>> has two links to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" >>> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. >>> >>> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to >>> the GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is >>> in the GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with >>> links back to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web >>> after all). I would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests >>> such that people do not ask for these things again. You cannot >>> reasonably expect people to search the ticket data base (with its >>> sub-optimal search interface) and wade through tickets to find out >>> about things that may or will be in a GE. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Philipp >>> >>> >>> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: >>>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature >>>> overview >>> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on >>> the FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added >>> (like for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of >>> the functionality for the GE. >>>> >>>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets >>>> labeled >>> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate >>> future planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects >>> (e.g., provided by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and >>> included into the development process for FI-WARE GEs. >>>> >>>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open >>> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general >>> overview for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia >>> Analysis GE it includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by >>> Siemens and the "White Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>> streaming- >>>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >>>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >>>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, >>>>> Issue 3 >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of >>>>>> movement, speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. >>>>>> shape of the moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify >>>>>> rigid versus non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? >>>>>> These may be better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >>>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of >>> what >>>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new >>>>> GEs will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, >>>>> pixel-based analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Philipp >>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sofia >>>>>> >>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>>>>> Assistant Professor >>>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>>>>> sofia at ieee.org >>>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>>>>> *************************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >>>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- >>> request at lists.fi- >>>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> >>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >>>>>> specific than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 1 >>>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" >>>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >> ens.n >>>>> et> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Denis, all, >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>>>>> >>>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: >>>>>> "Moving >>>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also >>>>> "Foreground/background estimation" and "Moving object >>>>> identification") is supported by the >>> codoan >>>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >>>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I >>>>> doubt that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>>>>> >>>>>> My proposal: >>>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >>>>> estimation" >>>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, >>>>>> suitcase, >>>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, >>>>> car, animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >>>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes >>>>>> mode) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >>>>> (only a vocabulary correction) >>>>>> >>>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the >>> Storage >>>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Denis Mischler >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>>> scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: >>>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>>>>> ********************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---- >>> -- >>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>> >>>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>> >>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---- >>> --- >>>>> - >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) >>> GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>> >>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: >>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>> >>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>> - >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ab mailing list >> Ab at fi-ppp.eu >> http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-streaming mailing list > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > > > End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6 > ********************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > Fiware-streaming mailing list > Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern Gesch?ftsf?hrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p.amon at siemens.com Fri Jul 20 22:30:50 2012 From: p.amon at siemens.com (Amon, Peter) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:30:50 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] [FI-PPP AB] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <50094832.6070701@cs.uni-saarland.de> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD2B76@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> <5007E9B5.1050702@dfki.de> <5008EFE9.8030306@dfki.de> <50094832.6070701@cs.uni-saarland.de> Message-ID: Dear Philipp, just one more technical comment. I would like to emphasize that compressed domain analysis can be seen as the first step ("early filter" in your words) of a multi-tier analysis chain, where pixel domain analysis is the last tier. Some functionality like moving object segmentation/tracking can be done in the compressed domain. If needed, more sophisticated analysis steps like face recognition can be done in the pixel domain. This reduces overall complexity, since analysis in the compressed domain is much faster (I would guess 10 to 100 times, depending on the algorithms employed). To be clear, I am not saying that compressed domain analysis can replace pixel domain analysis completely, but I think they can be combined in an advantageous fashion. SAFECITY even extended this multi-tier approach to a distributed architecture (compressed domain analysis at the edge and pixel domain analysis in the core) as presented at the FI-WARE Software Architects week. So I disagree that there is no interest from UC projects. We discussed the features of our asset (and also what is not possible) a lot with Sofia, so in this case I would say that communication was okay overall (maybe after a slow start, agreed). Maybe, this is a good opportunity to say thanks to Sofia for all the input and her collaborative spirit (and patience :-). Kind regards and a nice weekend to all Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at cs.uni-saarland.de] > Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 14:00 > To: Amon, Peter > Cc: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [FI-PPP AB] [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, > Issue 3 > > Hi, > > Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: > > Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset > directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. > (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel- > domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: > > - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if > something happens in the scene) > > - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape or > bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) > > - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object > segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) > > For the next release, we plan to implement: > > - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from frame > to frame in a video stream) > > > > I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in > the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in the > compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was wrong. I > will also check, where the desription of our asset on the wiki can be > improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid there is no > notification functionality in the wiki.) > > Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in > this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require > analysis in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > > > I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia > Analysis GE includes two assets: > > 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video > streams, > > 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis > Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > > > White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the > > description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a > > way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of > > the two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. > > As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is > the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not > put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available > in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This > seems to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything > substantial about it or to what degree its features would become > available as a GE. > > > On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid > > duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools > > usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally > > designed for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by > > SAFECITY). If you believe that the functionality offered by codoan > > (i.e., as realized as low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is > > not sufficient for your purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you > > want to do image analysis, not video analysis, or if you need > > analysis of uncompressed material), please keep the requirement in > > the Open Call. However, here we should be more precise what we > > exactly demand. > > What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their > main requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be > able to take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But > maybe I am wrong. > > They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is > very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a > result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems > to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC > requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for > about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the > communication seems not to work too well here. > > Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant > personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key > issues. Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most > discussed topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight > a lot of the things that we need to improve on. > > > On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is > > not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be > > reflected in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the > > "object tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the > > wiki already some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this > > resource in my mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I > > guess this a topic for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the > > AB. > > Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > > > If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be > > resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there > > is a general problem. > > Thanks. > > > I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. > > No problem. > > > Best, > > Philipp > > > Kind regards > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] > >> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 > >> To: Amon, Peter > >> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu > >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Thank you very much, Peter. > >> > >> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is > touching > >> on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the > >> UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and > >> which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise > >> this conversation to the attention of the AB. > >> > >> > >> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in > terms > >> of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in > general > >> terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As > >> we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high > >> level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to > >> be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as > >> other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what > >> is in the vision. > >> > >> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia > >> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is > >> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has > >> been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain > >> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will > be > >> something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. > >> > >> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki > >> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a > >> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". > How > >> about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of > >> listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, > >> I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. > >> > >> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs > >> in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing > >> GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming > >> so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very > >> concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete > info > >> about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object > >> segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia > >> analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one > only > >> works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what > >> type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work > >> with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to > >> someone who wants to apply your GE. > >> > >> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did > >> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to > >> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level > >> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was > not > >> adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But > that > >> is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been > >> so much more helpful. > >> > >> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what > >> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? > >> > >> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the > >> base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" > >> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: > codoan > >> is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more > >> details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links > >> to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" > >> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. > >> > >> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to > the > >> GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in > the > >> GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back > >> to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I > >> would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that > people > >> do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people > >> to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) > >> and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be > in > >> a GE. > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Philipp > >> > >> > >> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: > >>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview > >> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on > the > >> FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like > >> for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the > >> functionality for the GE. > >>> > >>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets > labeled > >> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate > future > >> planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., > provided > >> by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the > >> development process for FI-WARE GEs. > >>> > >>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open > >> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview > >> for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it > >> includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the > "White > >> Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. > >>> > >>> Kind regards > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > >> streaming- > >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek > >>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 > >>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou > >>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue > 3 > >>>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: > >>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking > >>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also > >>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, > >>>>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the > >>>>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus > >>>>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be > >>>>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. > >>>>> What do you think? > >>>> > >>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to > >>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of > >> what > >>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs > >>>> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based > >>>> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> > >>>> Philipp > >>>> > >>>>> Many thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Sofia > >>>>> > >>>>> *************************************************** > >>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > >>>>> Assistant Professor > >>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > >>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT > >>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > >>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > >>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > >>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr > >>>>> sofia at ieee.org > >>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > >>>>> *************************************************** > >>>>> > >>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- > >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- > >> request at lists.fi- > >>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > >>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 > >>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >>>>> > >>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > >>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> > >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> > >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> > >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Today's Topics: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Message: 1 > >>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 > >>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" > >>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" > >>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > >>>>> Message-ID: > >>>>> > >>>> > >> > >>>> et> > >>>>> > >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear Denis, all, > >>>>> > >>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! > >>>>> > >>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving > >>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background > >>>> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the > >> codoan > >>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object > >>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I > doubt > >>>> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. > >>>>> > >>>>> My proposal: > >>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background > >>>> estimation" > >>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, > suitcase, > >>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, > car, > >>>> animal, suitcase, etc.)" > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. > >>>>> > >>>>> Kind regards > >>>>> Peter > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > >>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis > >>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 > >>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear all, > >>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes > mode) > >>>>> > >>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom > Italia) > >>>>> > >>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". > >>>> (only a vocabulary correction) > >>>>> > >>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the > >> Storage > >>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". > >>>>> Regards > >>>>> Denis Mischler > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>> URL: >>>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------ > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list > >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >>>>> ********************************************** > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list > >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >> -- > >>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > >>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > >>>> > >>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: > >>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > >>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff > >>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > >>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > >>>> > >>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > >>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >> --- > >>>> - > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > >> > >> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: > >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > >> Dr. Walter Olthoff > >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > >> > >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > >> - > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ab mailing list > > Ab at fi-ppp.eu > > http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab > > From p.amon at siemens.com Fri Jul 20 23:56:30 2012 From: p.amon at siemens.com (Amon, Peter) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 23:56:30 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4B26@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD4B26@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Dear Sofia, I missed to notice this ticket. Sorry for that. A few quick answers now, more details later next week (possibly on the tracker): 1) I believe video decoding, re-encoding, transcoding and streaming are completely separate functionalities compared to video analysis. codoan has a streaming interface to receive (RTP) video streams though. 2) Person detection is something we are examining because of discussions with you at the Madrid meeting. I believe this can be done in the compressed domain to some extend (we already did some experiments on that), but it will not be as accurate as pixel-domain analysis. I do not think that face recognition will be possible in the compressed domain. Originally, codoan was planned to be release only in the FI-WARE test-bed. We are currently discussing of providing also a version that can be installed (or linked into an application), since I believe your use case in SAFECITY is very compelling. Kind regards Peter PS: One more info you have not asked for in your mail but in Madrid: We tested codoan also on Linux and it works fine. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sofia Tsekeridou [mailto:sots at ait.gr] > Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 16:01 > To: Amon, Peter; Philipp Slusallek [slusallek at dfki.de] > Cc: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: RE: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Dear Peter, Philipp, all, > > To contribute to the discussion further, I agree with Philipp that if more > detailed information for Fiware GEs is provided and the means to be > notified and easily locate the changes introduced by Fiware developers, > then it will be easier for Use Case projects to assess what further > requirements are posed from their side for a full Fiware-enabled > implementation of their envisioned applications. Of course, this is not > only the case for the Multimedia Analysis GE, as Philipp mentioned, but of > the majority of GEs descriptions and the updating of their status and > plans for future releases. > > Coming now to the specific issues of the Streaming GE WG and their > additional requirements with respect to content analysis and processing > (video, image, audio, 3D), I suggest that I make a first attempt to update > the description in the latest version of the Streaming GE document based > on the updated information that Peter has mentioned on the Multimedia > Analysis GE, both codoan and White Diamond, so as to reflect requirements > that are not currently addressed by the latter by next Tuesday. Then the > Streaming WG as well as Peter or other Fiware representatives could > potentially comment/contribute further. > > On the above, I agree with Philipp that requirements are very much > dependent on the exact algorithms used as well as their > performance/accuracy of detection per different context of use. Thus, such > descriptions and experiments results under which contexts of > use/deployment should be added in the Multimedia Analysis GE. This way we > will better what additional algorithmic requirements we should ask for. I > hereby quote a respective question/request for feedback that I have posted > on the Fusion Forge tool - Peter could you please respond to it? > > ----------------------------- > Date: 2012-07-05 13:37 > Sender: Sofia Tsekeridou > > As discussed during the training week in June 2012 in Madrid, the > following additional functionalities will be desirable to be available in > Fiware Release 1 of the Multimedia Analysis GE: > 1. Video decoding/re-encoding/transcoding/streaming > 2. Person detection (perhaps also face?) > Furthermore, a usage manual for the Multimedia Analysis GE with respect to > algorithm parameters definition, value ranges, and contexts/constraints of > use (e.g. camera settings, lightning conditions, indoor/outdoor settings, > etc.), including performance information (how many camera streams can be > processed in parallel, execution times, computing and memory needs, > accuracy rates, etc.) will be much appreciated along with the 1st Release. > Finally, we have discussed on using the Multimedia Analysis GE on the > SafeCity Gateway during the real-life trials in Madrid in February 2013. > Is it possible to get access to the respective code to do so as well as > installation instructions? If yes, when will it be available? The issue is > that it will be very bandwidth demanding to stream up to 4 HD compressed > camera feeds to the Internet to have them processed by the Multimedia > Analysis GE residing at the Seville testbed. > ------------------------------ > > Many thanks in advance! > > With warm regards, > > Sofia > *************************************************** > Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > Assistant Professor > Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > Athens Information Technology - AIT > 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > E-mail: sots at ait.gr > sofia at ieee.org > Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > *************************************************** > > -----Original Message----- > From: ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu [mailto:ab-bounces at fi-ppp.eu] On Behalf Of > Philipp Slusallek > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:00 PM > To: Amon, Peter > Cc: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [FI-PPP AB] [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, > Issue 3 > > Hi, > > Am 20.07.2012 10:53, schrieb Amon, Peter: > > Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset > directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. > (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel- > domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: > > - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if > > something happens in the scene) > > - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape > > or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) > > - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object > > segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) For the > next release, we plan to implement: > > - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from > > frame to frame in a video stream) > > > > I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in > > the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in > > the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was > > wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the > > wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid > > there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) > > Unfortunately, most people that I talked to seem not to be interested in > this part (except maybe, as an early filter) but they all require analysis > in the pixel domain. So my email was not about this part at all. > > > I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia > Analysis GE includes two assets: > > 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video > > streams, > > 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis > Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. > > > White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the > > description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a > > way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of the > > two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. > > As you say below, its all about avoiding duplication of work and that is > the background of my email. I wanted to know what is coming so we do not > put a lot of money in the OpenCall into something that will be available > in the Release 2. So knowing what will be coming is essential. This seems > to be related to White Diamond but I cannot find anything substantial > about it or to what degree its features would become available as a GE. > > > On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid > > duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools > > usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally designed > > for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by SAFECITY). If you > > believe that the functionality offered by codoan (i.e., as realized as > > low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is not sufficient for your > > purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you want to do image > > analysis, not video analysis, or if you need analysis of uncompressed > > material), please keep the requirement in the Open Call. However, here > > we should be more precise what we exactly demand. > > What I got from the discussions with SAFECITY in the AB is that their main > requirements are for analysis in the pixel-domain (but they may be able to > take advantage of the compressed domain as a early filter). But maybe I am > wrong. > > They are monitoring a crowded street and as far as I can tell there is > very little you can do in the compressed domain in this situation. As a > result I am still surprised and confused why pixel-domain analysis seems > to have such a low priority in this GE. BTW, the info on the UC > requirements has been available (at various levels of refinement) for > about one years now from the UCs. I just say that to point out that the > communication seems not to work too well here. > > Sorry, that I single you out in this conversation. It is not meant > personally, your mail just trigger a reaction to long standing key issues. > Media (really "image/video"!) analysis is maybe one of the most discussed > topics in the AB (besides streaming) and it seems to highlight a lot of > the things that we need to improve on. > > > On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is > > not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be reflected > > in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the "object > > tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the wiki already > > some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this resource in my > > mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I guess this a topic > > for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the AB. > > Good point, thanks! Can we put this on to our agenda for our next meeting? > > > If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be > > resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there > > is a general problem. > > Thanks. > > > I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. > > No problem. > > > Best, > > Philipp > > > Kind regards > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] > >> Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 > >> To: Amon, Peter > >> Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu > >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue > >> 3 > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Thank you very much, Peter. > >> > >> This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is > >> touching on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the > >> AB, and the UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to > >> many UCs and which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow > >> me to raise this conversation to the attention of the AB. > >> > >> > >> In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in > >> terms of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki > >> in general terms. I happen to know about the information sources in > >> the FI-PPP. As we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision > >> is extremely high level and promises the moon, but as we found out in > >> Madrid, we seem to be getting much less. Trying to find out what this > >> is, is important as other work in the UCs will be based on what we > >> will get and not on what is in the vision. > >> > >> Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia > >> analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is > >> important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question > >> has been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain > >> processing would not come and we only found out later that there will > >> be something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. > >> > >> Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki > >> specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a > >> reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". > >> How about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead > >> of listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you > >> see, I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. > >> > >> Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new > >> GEs in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the > >> existing GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about > >> what is coming so that we can even know about it and plan > >> accordingly. We have very concrete use cases that we must implement > >> and so need very concrete info about what will be offered. Simply > >> saying "there will be moving object segmentation" is like saying > >> nothing in the context of multimedia analysis. As we all know, there > >> are tons of algorithms and each one only works for some specific > >> scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what type of algorithms is > >> being used and how this can be tweaked to work with various types of > >> objects and environments, it is mostly useless to someone who wants to > apply your GE. > >> > >> In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did > >> search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to > >> multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level > >> analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was > >> not adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. > >> But that is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would > >> have been so much more helpful. > >> > >> So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what > >> will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? > >> > >> As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of > >> the base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I > "love" > >> the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: > >> codoan is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision > >> for more details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond > >> has two links to more details for both of which I still get a > "permission denied" > >> error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. > >> > >> Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to > >> the GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is > >> in the GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with > >> links back to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web > >> after all). I would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests > >> such that people do not ask for these things again. You cannot > >> reasonably expect people to search the ticket data base (with its > >> sub-optimal search interface) and wade through tickets to find out > >> about things that may or will be in a GE. > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Philipp > >> > >> > >> Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: > >>> a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature > >>> overview > >> for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on > >> the FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added > >> (like for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of > >> the functionality for the GE. > >>> > >>> An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets > >>> labeled > >> "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate > >> future planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects > >> (e.g., provided by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and > >> included into the development process for FI-WARE GEs. > >>> > >>> Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open > >> Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general > >> overview for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia > >> Analysis GE it includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by > >> Siemens and the "White Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. > >>> > >>> Kind regards > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > >> streaming- > >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek > >>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 > >>>> To: Sofia Tsekeridou > >>>> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, > >>>> Issue 3 > >>>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: > >>>>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking > >>>>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also > >>>>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of > >>>>> movement, speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. > >>>>> shape of the moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify > >>>>> rigid versus non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? > >>>>> These may be better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the > compressed domain. > >>>>> What do you think? > >>>> > >>>> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to > >>>> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of > >> what > >>>> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new > >>>> GEs will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, > >>>> pixel-based analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented > Reality). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> > >>>> Philipp > >>>> > >>>>> Many thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Sofia > >>>>> > >>>>> *************************************************** > >>>>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > >>>>> Assistant Professor > >>>>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > >>>>> Athens Information Technology - AIT > >>>>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > >>>>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > >>>>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > >>>>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr > >>>>> sofia at ieee.org > >>>>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > >>>>> *************************************************** > >>>>> > >>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- > >>>> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- > >> request at lists.fi- > >>>> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > >>>>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 > >>>>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >>>>> > >>>>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > >>>>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> > >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>>>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> > >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>>>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> > >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > >>>>> specific than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Today's Topics: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>> ---- > >>>>> > >>>>> Message: 1 > >>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 > >>>>> From: "Amon, Peter" > >>>>> To: Mischler Denis , "ab at fi-ppp.eu" > >>>>> , "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > >>>>> Message-ID: > >>>>> > >>>> > >> >> ens.n > >>>> et> > >>>>> > >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear Denis, all, > >>>>> > >>>>> thanks for the new version of the document! > >>>>> > >>>>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: > >>>>> "Moving > >>>> object segmentation" (and to some extent also > >>>> "Foreground/background estimation" and "Moving object > >>>> identification") is supported by the > >> codoan > >>>> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object > >>>> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I > >>>> doubt that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. > >>>>> > >>>>> My proposal: > >>>>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background > >>>> estimation" > >>>>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, > >>>>> suitcase, > >>>> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, > >>>> car, animal, suitcase, etc.)" > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for considering the proposal. > >>>>> > >>>>> Kind regards > >>>>> Peter > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > >>>> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis > >>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 > >>>>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear all, > >>>>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes > >>>>> mode) > >>>>> > >>>>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom > Italia) > >>>>> > >>>>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". > >>>> (only a vocabulary correction) > >>>>> > >>>>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the > >> Storage > >>>> Enabler) and completed if "yes". > >>>>> Regards > >>>>> Denis Mischler > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > >>>>> scrubbed... > >>>>> URL: >>>> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------ > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list > >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >>>>> ********************************************** > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Fiware-streaming mailing list > >>>>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>>>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> ---- > >> -- > >>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > >>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > >>>> > >>>> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: > >>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > >>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff > >>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > >>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > >>>> > >>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > >>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> ---- > >> --- > >>>> - > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ---- Deutsches Forschungszentrum f?r K?nstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) > >> GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > >> > >> Gesch?ftsf?hrung: > >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > >> Dr. Walter Olthoff > >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > >> > >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ----- > >> - > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ab mailing list > > Ab at fi-ppp.eu > > http://lists.fi-ppp.eu/mailman/listinfo/ab > > > From sots at ait.gr Tue Jul 24 19:17:02 2012 From: sots at ait.gr (Sofia Tsekeridou) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:17:02 +0000 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FIWARE Streaming and Storage GE: updated document Message-ID: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD7116@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Dear Dennis, all, Attached please find a first attempt of mine to update the Streaming and Storage GE description based on the recent discussions on storage aspects and on content processing aspects after going through the documentation on the MMA GE (codoan) and White Diamond - I have to admit that the documentation of the latter on the Wiki is very limited and, as Philipp mentioned, access to Fusion Forge documentation is not allowed. However, I understood that White Diamond is more image analysis performed on a query image that the user/application submits to retrieve information on "objects, persons, covers, barcodes, etc". I assume this is performed by image-based similarity (feature-based) while they must have already annotated images/image library. This is what I understood based on the limited documentation. Thus, I accordingly reflected further requirements from our side. With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Mischler Denis [denis.mischler at technicolor.com] Sent: 23 July 2012 17:05 To: Sofia Tsekeridou; Bille Bize Masson Claire (ORANGE) Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Thanks a lot for doing this. So, during the call on Wednesday I will recommend to include the storage EPIC and call the GE : ?Streaming and storage? From: Sofia Tsekeridou [mailto:sots at ait.gr] Sent: lundi 23 juillet 2012 15:10 To: Mischler Denis; Bille Bize Masson Claire (ORANGE) Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Hi Dennis, I will try to merge the two based on our requirements along with the work on the MMA GE updates and the updated description on the processing epic and will provide the next version of the document by tomorrow end of day as promised. I believe storage on the cloud of multimedia data (even data that serve a city guide use case) is very important. By the way, do you happen to have a more elaborate document of the Storage GE? With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Mischler Denis [denis.mischler at technicolor.com] Sent: 23 July 2012 15:52 To: Bille Bize Masson Claire (ORANGE); Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other OK in this case I will recommend to Sofia from SAFECITY to feel free to do for their best, and why not, merge STREAMING and STORAGE into one enabler ; so we would have done the job to push for storage in the FI-WARE instance. From: claire.billebize at orange.com [mailto:claire.billebize at orange.com] Sent: lundi 23 juillet 2012 14:20 To: Mischler Denis; sots at ait.gr Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Hello all, Following the results of our last D2.2 and D2.3 on going we will push the ?city guide? use case. In this context, this enabler is no more a ?must ? on our side according the use case chosen. It is a ?could? that we will validate the interest during next few weeks as it can become out of the scope. I hope this answer your question. Don?t hesitate to come back to us if needed. Best regards, Claire De : Mischler Denis [mailto:denis.mischler at technicolor.com] Envoy? : mercredi 18 juillet 2012 11:43 ? : BILLE-BIZE Claire RD-SIRP Objet : FW: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Bonjour Claire, Je ne sais pas si les vacances des uns et des autres permet de clore cette discussion avant fin Juillet ? Cordialement Denis From: Sofia Tsekeridou [mailto: ] Sent: mercredi 18 juillet 2012 11:37 To: Peretz Gurel; Mischler Denis Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Dear Peretz, As Denis suggested, I would further discuss this with Cedric and Arnaud providing them all the specifics of SafeCity and will see how we proceed from there on. I will let you know. With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Peretz Gurel [peretz at athenaiss.com] Sent: 18 July 2012 10:46 To: Mischler Denis; Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Dear Denis, Sofia, I have read the description of the content storage below. It seems that the goal of this GE is to provide storage for many small video clips generated by many people with smartphones and uploaded to the cloud. This is fine. However, this does not answer the requirements for SafeCity application where several thousands of video cameras stream nonstop video 24X7. This nonstop stream has to be stored for a period of X days (X changes from country to country) and then permanently destroyed (legal requirement). Random Access to the stored video file of each camera should be possible for many applications at the same time. The requirement was illustrated in the AB meeting by the drawing below. Best regards, Peretz Gurel European Projects Manager Athena security implementations Ltd Office: +972-3-5572548 Mobile: +972-54-4734045 Email: peretz at athenaiss.com www.athenaiss.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01CD68EC.F97C35D0] From: Mischler Denis [mailto:denis.mischler at technicolor.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 5:09 PM To: Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Peretz Gurel; Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Hello Sofia, Thanks for you proposal. It was not that clear to me how the Storage and the Streaming should be grouped in the same GE. In addition, we have to finish this by end of July. So, my interpretation is the following : - For Video Analytics in the pixel domain we have already an EPIC where you contributed largely and it remains open if want to add more things - Video Analytics at the Gateway : the answer from Juanjo was to say it should utilize the cloud proxy, which I agree but don?t see how we can include this in our GE. - Video Storage and retrieval : this was more discussed because storage and retrieval is another GE already proposed. Particularly, Cedric and Arnaud, from the FI-CONTENT project have proposed a GE which I attach here under. I propose to find an agreement with these guys whether we should add it as an epic to our Streaming G. Enabler or keep it separate as en extension to the existing FI-WARE enabler ? Best regards Denis 1.1.1 - Content Storage, Access and Management 1.1.1.1 - General description and Status of the discussions with FI-WARE Name Content Storage, Access and Management Owner Orange: C. Floury, A. Brun Priority Must FI-WARE related chapter and contact names FI-WARE Section 3.2.4 (Object Storage Generic Enabler) FI-Ware references Object Storage Generic Enabler Related EPICs in FI-WARE FIContent.Epic.ContentStorageAccessAndManagement -- Facilitate digital literacy, develop social interaction around digital content (facilitate ubiquitous content access and remote interaction between people). Provide people with a Personal Cloud infrastructure enabling persistence and integrity of their content and an ubiquitous access of their content. Summary of technical elements exchanged with FI-WARE ENVIROFI does foresee such enablers for observations. ENVIROFI team 21:53, 11 December 2011 (UTC)M18 Standards SNIA See Cloud Data Management Interface, SNIA Technical Position: http://snia.cloudfour.com/sites/default/files/CDMI_SNIA_Architecture_v1.0.pdf FI-WARE feedback to be provided in the M18 version Availability 1. SoA and is available off-the-shelf Responsibility 1. being researched and developed by core platform 1.1.1.2 - Enablers technical description Name Content Storage, Access and Management Owner Orange: C. Floury, A. Brun Priority Must Proposed by Content Area C ? UGC Relevance for other Content Areas Content Area C and B WP2 Use Case Functional Requirements ? Domain B: o Multiple users recommendation ? Access to content from System (Operator) and SNs (Facebook, Google+) (Management) ? Content Presentation ? Visualization on multiple devices (Retrieval of results on multiple devices) ? Interactive navigation interfaces (Exploration of results on multiple devices) ? Semantic Linking (Exploration of results on multiple devices) o Clickable Video ? Content Preprocessing: ? Add information into a video using a specific tool & a specific format (Metadata generation) ? The metadata are provided with the content (Ingestion) ? Content Presentation: ? Visualization on TV (discreet) and/or on tablet (Inform users) ? Access to the metadata (links, apps, etc..) (Access) ? Contextual additional information ? Domain C: 3 o Create and Share in a ?Hybrid World? ? Content Enrichment ? Enrich contents with metadata information (Metadata, Key words, media type) ? Collaboration ? Share multimedia content across ?Hybrid World? ? Semantic analysis (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Preview (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Metadata management (format, codecs, ....) (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Indexing (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) o Create and Share around an event ? Content Enrichment ? Enrich contents with metadatas (events) informations (Metadata, Key words, media type) ? Collaboration ? Share live multimedia content (captured by participants) (Live Sharing & Content adaptation) ? Send content to Vjay service (Live Sharing & Content adaptation) ? Semantic analysis (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Preview (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Metadata management (format, codecs, ....) (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Indexing (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) o Create and Share a family book ? Content Enrichment ? Enrich contents with metadatas and voices (Metadata, Key words, media type) ? Collaboration ? Semantic analysis (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Preview (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Metadata management (format, codecs, ....) (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) ? Indexing (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) Overview Facilitate digital literacy, develop social interaction around digital content (facilitate ubiquitous content access and remote interaction between people). Provide people with a Personal Cloud infrastructure enabling persistence and integrity of their content and an ubiquitous access of their content. Basic Concepts Storage: The user can store his content (text, image, sound, video and associated metadata) and his contacts on a Personal Cloud (entity in the cloud that is controlled by the user). Here, large scale databases need to be provided. Access: The user can access the content that is stored on his Personal Cloud or the content that is stored on the Personal Cloud of another user from any device (PC, mobile phone, tablet, etc.) connected to internet. The user can define and manage lists of users that can (partially or fully) access the content present in his Personal Cloud. The user can access the contacts that are stored on his Personal Cloud from any device (PC, mobile phone, tablet, etc.) connected to internet. Management: The user can define playlists, albums and favorites on his Personal Cloud. The user can use tools to automatically manage the content that is stored on his Personal Cloud: - Content organization by content type, name, format, size, date, metadata, tag, ranking, etc. - Metadata enrichment based on content analysis, localization, etc. - Deletion of duplicate contents, - Modification of access rights, - Etc. The user can use content searching tools (according to name, type, format, size, date, metadata, tag, ranking, etc.) on the content stored on his Personal Cloud. The user can use contact searching tools on the contact stored on his Personal Cloud. Technical Functions I) ) Storage: Description: the user can store a content (text, image, sound, video and associated metadata) and his contacts on a Personal Cloud (entity in the cloud that is controlled by the user). Inputs: - user?s ID - content to store (text, image, sound, video), and associated metadata - contact to store Outputs: - result: success or failure - failure cause: unsupported media format, corrupted media, maximum Personal Cloud size exceeded, unknown user, etc. II) Access: Description: the user can access the content that is stored on his Personal Cloud or the content that is stored on the Personal Cloud of another user from any device (PC, mobile phone, tablet, etc.) connected to internet. The user can define and manage lists of users that can (partially or fully) access the content present in his Personal Cloud. The user can access the contacts that are stored on his Personal Cloud from any device (PC, mobile phone, tablet, etc.) connected to internet. Inputs: - user?s ID Outputs: - content - contact - result: success or failure - failure cause: unknown user, etc. III) Management: Description: the user can define playlists, albums and favorites on his Personal Cloud. Inputs: - user?s ID - action to do: add/delete/modify (a playlist, an album name or a favorite) - playlist/album/favorite name and content Outputs: - result: success or failure - failure cause: unknown user, etc. Description: The user can use tools to automatically manage the content that is stored on his Personal Cloud: - Content organization by content type, name, format, size, date, metadata, tag, ranking, etc. - Metadata enrichment based on content analysis, localization, etc. - Deletion of duplicate contents, - Modification of access rights, - Etc. Inputs: - user?s ID - action to do: content organization, deletion of duplicate contents, etc. Outputs: - result: success or failure - failure cause: unknown user, etc. Components The Object Storage GE in FI-WARE will be composed of loosely coupled components. A potential architecting of this would be to separate the components for API handling, authentication, storage management and storage handling. Separating the main functional components of the system will allow for scaling. Given that the demand on storage systems is to ever increase the storage capacity, the system should scale with commodity hardware horizontally. Inputs HTTP Requests See Technical Functions Outputs Json Response See Technical Functions Interfaces CDMI: http://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/FIWARE.ArchitectureDescription.Cloud.ObjectStorage Standards SNIA See Cloud Data Management Interface, SNIA Technical Position: http://snia.cloudfour.com/sites/default/files/CDMI_SNIA_Architecture_v1.0.pdf Complexity / Maturity Medium / Medium Other - From: Sofia Tsekeridou [mailto:sots at ait.gr] Sent: lundi 16 juillet 2012 14:01 To: Mischler Denis Subject: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Dear Denis, The SafeCity representative in the FIWARE AB informed me that a decision of the last meeting last week was that we collaborate on including further requirements (video analytics already included) from SafeCity to the Streaming GE (see below). He mentioned that this work should be finalized by the end of the month. Do you plan to have a new version of the Streaming GE description document circulated? How do you think we should address the above point? Please let me know. With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Peretz Gurel [peretz at athenaiss.com] Sent: 12 July 2012 17:02 To: Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: Diego Gimenez Perez Subject: Video Analytics Dear Sofia, I have presented the PPT about video analytics. The part about video analytics in the pixel domain is already taken care of by the Streaming WG. It was agreed that the other topics as well will be handled by this WG in which you are already involved. So please work with Denis Michler (who also attended the AB meeting) according to the Action Point (AP): [cid:image002.jpg at 01CD68EC.F97C35D0] Note that the WG has to conclude its work by the end of the month so that the otcome will be available for the second open call. Best regards, Peretz Gurel European Projects Manager Athena security implementations Ltd Office: +972-3-5572548 Mobile: +972-54-4734045 Email: peretz at athenaiss.com www.athenaiss.com _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 42671 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20696 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: StreamingGE_AIT_24072012.doc Type: application/msword Size: 74752 bytes Desc: StreamingGE_AIT_24072012.doc URL: From denis.mischler at technicolor.com Wed Jul 25 11:46:05 2012 From: denis.mischler at technicolor.com (Mischler Denis) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:46:05 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FIWARE Streaming and Storage GE: updated document In-Reply-To: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD7116@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> References: <7E1E497D42E76D4CBCE2F89399107D1E28CD7116@AMSPRD0204MB111.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C50002504CA435@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> Thanks for this good proposal. I updated the wiki here : http://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/Materializing_Data/Context_Management_in_FI-WARE#Stream-oriented_Generic_Enablers I hope I did not miss something and everything you proposed is in there. This should now be closed during the call this afternoon. Best regards Denis From: Sofia Tsekeridou [mailto:sots at ait.gr] Sent: mardi 24 juillet 2012 19:17 To: Mischler Denis; Bille Bize Masson Claire (ORANGE); fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: FIWARE Streaming and Storage GE: updated document Dear Dennis, all, Attached please find a first attempt of mine to update the Streaming and Storage GE description based on the recent discussions on storage aspects and on content processing aspects after going through the documentation on the MMA GE (codoan) and White Diamond - I have to admit that the documentation of the latter on the Wiki is very limited and, as Philipp mentioned, access to Fusion Forge documentation is not allowed. However, I understood that White Diamond is more image analysis performed on a query image that the user/application submits to retrieve information on "objects, persons, covers, barcodes, etc". I assume this is performed by image-based similarity (feature-based) while they must have already annotated images/image library. This is what I understood based on the limited documentation. Thus, I accordingly reflected further requirements from our side. With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Mischler Denis [denis.mischler at technicolor.com] Sent: 23 July 2012 17:05 To: Sofia Tsekeridou; Bille Bize Masson Claire (ORANGE) Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Thanks a lot for doing this. So, during the call on Wednesday I will recommend to include the storage EPIC and call the GE : "Streaming and storage" From: Sofia Tsekeridou [mailto:sots at ait.gr] Sent: lundi 23 juillet 2012 15:10 To: Mischler Denis; Bille Bize Masson Claire (ORANGE) Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Hi Dennis, I will try to merge the two based on our requirements along with the work on the MMA GE updates and the updated description on the processing epic and will provide the next version of the document by tomorrow end of day as promised. I believe storage on the cloud of multimedia data (even data that serve a city guide use case) is very important. By the way, do you happen to have a more elaborate document of the Storage GE? With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Mischler Denis [denis.mischler at technicolor.com] Sent: 23 July 2012 15:52 To: Bille Bize Masson Claire (ORANGE); Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other OK in this case I will recommend to Sofia from SAFECITY to feel free to do for their best, and why not, merge STREAMING and STORAGE into one enabler ; so we would have done the job to push for storage in the FI-WARE instance. From: claire.billebize at orange.com [mailto:claire.billebize at orange.com] Sent: lundi 23 juillet 2012 14:20 To: Mischler Denis; sots at ait.gr Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Hello all, Following the results of our last D2.2 and D2.3 on going we will push the "city guide" use case. In this context, this enabler is no more a "must " on our side according the use case chosen. It is a "could" that we will validate the interest during next few weeks as it can become out of the scope. I hope this answer your question. Don't hesitate to come back to us if needed. Best regards, Claire De : Mischler Denis [mailto:denis.mischler at technicolor.com] Envoy? : mercredi 18 juillet 2012 11:43 ? : BILLE-BIZE Claire RD-SIRP Objet : FW: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Bonjour Claire, Je ne sais pas si les vacances des uns et des autres permet de clore cette discussion avant fin Juillet ? Cordialement Denis From: Sofia Tsekeridou [mailto: ] Sent: mercredi 18 juillet 2012 11:37 To: Peretz Gurel; Mischler Denis Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Dear Peretz, As Denis suggested, I would further discuss this with Cedric and Arnaud providing them all the specifics of SafeCity and will see how we proceed from there on. I will let you know. With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Peretz Gurel [peretz at athenaiss.com] Sent: 18 July 2012 10:46 To: Mischler Denis; Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Dear Denis, Sofia, I have read the description of the content storage below. It seems that the goal of this GE is to provide storage for many small video clips generated by many people with smartphones and uploaded to the cloud. This is fine. However, this does not answer the requirements for SafeCity application where several thousands of video cameras stream nonstop video 24X7. This nonstop stream has to be stored for a period of X days (X changes from country to country) and then permanently destroyed (legal requirement). Random Access to the stored video file of each camera should be possible for many applications at the same time. The requirement was illustrated in the AB meeting by the drawing below. Best regards, Peretz Gurel European Projects Manager Athena security implementations Ltd Office: +972-3-5572548 Mobile: +972-54-4734045 Email: peretz at athenaiss.com www.athenaiss.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01CD6A5A.C1DD5040] From: Mischler Denis [mailto:denis.mischler at technicolor.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 5:09 PM To: Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: FLOURY Cedric (France Telecom); BRUN Arnaud (France Telecom); Peretz Gurel; Fourdeux Henri Subject: RE: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Hello Sofia, Thanks for you proposal. It was not that clear to me how the Storage and the Streaming should be grouped in the same GE. In addition, we have to finish this by end of July. So, my interpretation is the following : - For Video Analytics in the pixel domain we have already an EPIC where you contributed largely and it remains open if want to add more things - Video Analytics at the Gateway : the answer from Juanjo was to say it should utilize the cloud proxy, which I agree but don't see how we can include this in our GE. - Video Storage and retrieval : this was more discussed because storage and retrieval is another GE already proposed. Particularly, Cedric and Arnaud, from the FI-CONTENT project have proposed a GE which I attach here under. I propose to find an agreement with these guys whether we should add it as an epic to our Streaming G. Enabler or keep it separate as en extension to the existing FI-WARE enabler ? Best regards Denis 1.1.1 - Content Storage, Access and Management 1.1.1.1 - General description and Status of the discussions with FI-WARE Name Content Storage, Access and Management Owner Orange: C. Floury, A. Brun Priority Must FI-WARE related chapter and contact names FI-WARE Section 3.2.4 (Object Storage Generic Enabler) FI-Ware references Object Storage Generic Enabler Related EPICs in FI-WARE FIContent.Epic.ContentStorageAccessAndManagement -- Facilitate digital literacy, develop social interaction around digital content (facilitate ubiquitous content access and remote interaction between people). Provide people with a Personal Cloud infrastructure enabling persistence and integrity of their content and an ubiquitous access of their content. Summary of technical elements exchanged with FI-WARE ENVIROFI does foresee such enablers for observations. ENVIROFI team 21:53, 11 December 2011 (UTC)M18 Standards SNIA See Cloud Data Management Interface, SNIA Technical Position: http://snia.cloudfour.com/sites/default/files/CDMI_SNIA_Architecture_v1.0.pdf FI-WARE feedback to be provided in the M18 version Availability 1. SoA and is available off-the-shelf Responsibility 1. being researched and developed by core platform 1.1.1.2 - Enablers technical description Name Content Storage, Access and Management Owner Orange: C. Floury, A. Brun Priority Must Proposed by Content Area C - UGC Relevance for other Content Areas Content Area C and B WP2 Use Case Functional Requirements * Domain B: o Multiple users recommendation * Access to content from System (Operator) and SNs (Facebook, Google+) (Management) * Content Presentation * Visualization on multiple devices (Retrieval of results on multiple devices) * Interactive navigation interfaces (Exploration of results on multiple devices) * Semantic Linking (Exploration of results on multiple devices) o Clickable Video * Content Preprocessing: * Add information into a video using a specific tool & a specific format (Metadata generation) * The metadata are provided with the content (Ingestion) * Content Presentation: * Visualization on TV (discreet) and/or on tablet (Inform users) * Access to the metadata (links, apps, etc..) (Access) * Contextual additional information * Domain C: 3 o Create and Share in a "Hybrid World" * Content Enrichment * Enrich contents with metadata information (Metadata, Key words, media type) * Collaboration * Share multimedia content across "Hybrid World" * Semantic analysis (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Preview (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Metadata management (format, codecs, ....) (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Indexing (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) o Create and Share around an event * Content Enrichment * Enrich contents with metadatas (events) informations (Metadata, Key words, media type) * Collaboration * Share live multimedia content (captured by participants) (Live Sharing & Content adaptation) * Send content to Vjay service (Live Sharing & Content adaptation) * Semantic analysis (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Preview (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Metadata management (format, codecs, ....) (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Indexing (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) o Create and Share a family book * Content Enrichment * Enrich contents with metadatas and voices (Metadata, Key words, media type) * Collaboration * Semantic analysis (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Preview (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Metadata management (format, codecs, ....) (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) * Indexing (Upload Content for Storage and Indexing) Overview Facilitate digital literacy, develop social interaction around digital content (facilitate ubiquitous content access and remote interaction between people). Provide people with a Personal Cloud infrastructure enabling persistence and integrity of their content and an ubiquitous access of their content. Basic Concepts Storage: The user can store his content (text, image, sound, video and associated metadata) and his contacts on a Personal Cloud (entity in the cloud that is controlled by the user). Here, large scale databases need to be provided. Access: The user can access the content that is stored on his Personal Cloud or the content that is stored on the Personal Cloud of another user from any device (PC, mobile phone, tablet, etc.) connected to internet. The user can define and manage lists of users that can (partially or fully) access the content present in his Personal Cloud. The user can access the contacts that are stored on his Personal Cloud from any device (PC, mobile phone, tablet, etc.) connected to internet. Management: The user can define playlists, albums and favorites on his Personal Cloud. The user can use tools to automatically manage the content that is stored on his Personal Cloud: - Content organization by content type, name, format, size, date, metadata, tag, ranking, etc. - Metadata enrichment based on content analysis, localization, etc. - Deletion of duplicate contents, - Modification of access rights, - Etc. The user can use content searching tools (according to name, type, format, size, date, metadata, tag, ranking, etc.) on the content stored on his Personal Cloud. The user can use contact searching tools on the contact stored on his Personal Cloud. Technical Functions I) ) Storage: Description: the user can store a content (text, image, sound, video and associated metadata) and his contacts on a Personal Cloud (entity in the cloud that is controlled by the user). Inputs: - user's ID - content to store (text, image, sound, video), and associated metadata - contact to store Outputs: - result: success or failure - failure cause: unsupported media format, corrupted media, maximum Personal Cloud size exceeded, unknown user, etc. II) Access: Description: the user can access the content that is stored on his Personal Cloud or the content that is stored on the Personal Cloud of another user from any device (PC, mobile phone, tablet, etc.) connected to internet. The user can define and manage lists of users that can (partially or fully) access the content present in his Personal Cloud. The user can access the contacts that are stored on his Personal Cloud from any device (PC, mobile phone, tablet, etc.) connected to internet. Inputs: - user's ID Outputs: - content - contact - result: success or failure - failure cause: unknown user, etc. III) Management: Description: the user can define playlists, albums and favorites on his Personal Cloud. Inputs: - user's ID - action to do: add/delete/modify (a playlist, an album name or a favorite) - playlist/album/favorite name and content Outputs: - result: success or failure - failure cause: unknown user, etc. Description: The user can use tools to automatically manage the content that is stored on his Personal Cloud: - Content organization by content type, name, format, size, date, metadata, tag, ranking, etc. - Metadata enrichment based on content analysis, localization, etc. - Deletion of duplicate contents, - Modification of access rights, - Etc. Inputs: - user's ID - action to do: content organization, deletion of duplicate contents, etc. Outputs: - result: success or failure - failure cause: unknown user, etc. Components The Object Storage GE in FI-WARE will be composed of loosely coupled components. A potential architecting of this would be to separate the components for API handling, authentication, storage management and storage handling. Separating the main functional components of the system will allow for scaling. Given that the demand on storage systems is to ever increase the storage capacity, the system should scale with commodity hardware horizontally. Inputs HTTP Requests See Technical Functions Outputs Json Response See Technical Functions Interfaces CDMI: http://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/FIWARE.ArchitectureDescription.Cloud.ObjectStorage Standards SNIA See Cloud Data Management Interface, SNIA Technical Position: http://snia.cloudfour.com/sites/default/files/CDMI_SNIA_Architecture_v1.0.pdf Complexity / Maturity Medium / Medium Other - From: Sofia Tsekeridou [mailto:sots at ait.gr] Sent: lundi 16 juillet 2012 14:01 To: Mischler Denis Subject: FIWARE Streaming GE & SafeCity Video Analytics + other Dear Denis, The SafeCity representative in the FIWARE AB informed me that a decision of the last meeting last week was that we collaborate on including further requirements (video analytics already included) from SafeCity to the Streaming GE (see below). He mentioned that this work should be finalized by the end of the month. Do you plan to have a new version of the Streaming GE description document circulated? How do you think we should address the above point? Please let me know. With warm regards, Sofia *************************************************** Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou Assistant Professor Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area Athens Information Technology - AIT 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 E-mail: sots at ait.gr sofia at ieee.org Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html *************************************************** ________________________________ From: Peretz Gurel [peretz at athenaiss.com] Sent: 12 July 2012 17:02 To: Sofia Tsekeridou Cc: Diego Gimenez Perez Subject: Video Analytics Dear Sofia, I have presented the PPT about video analytics. The part about video analytics in the pixel domain is already taken care of by the Streaming WG. It was agreed that the other topics as well will be handled by this WG in which you are already involved. So please work with Denis Michler (who also attended the AB meeting) according to the Action Point (AP): [cid:image002.jpg at 01CD6A5A.C1DD5040] Note that the WG has to conclude its work by the end of the month so that the otcome will be available for the second open call. Best regards, Peretz Gurel European Projects Manager Athena security implementations Ltd Office: +972-3-5572548 Mobile: +972-54-4734045 Email: peretz at athenaiss.com www.athenaiss.com _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. 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Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20696 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From denis.mischler at technicolor.com Wed Jul 25 16:51:16 2012 From: denis.mischler at technicolor.com (Mischler Denis) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:51:16 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Streaming GE In-Reply-To: <500FEEF6.9040107@create-net.org> References: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C5000250362302@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> <500FEEF6.9040107@create-net.org> Message-ID: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C50002504CA7F2@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> Federico, Please give a look to http://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/FIWARE.Epic.Stream-oriented.ManagementMonitoring I extended Monitoring to Manage and Monitor and included the Sw Defined Netw approache in there. Denis -----Original Message----- From: Federico M. Facca [mailto:federico.facca at create-net.org] Sent: mercredi 25 juillet 2012 15:05 To: Mischler Denis Subject: Streaming GE Dear Denis, I am not bringing this to the discussion in the call, since I was not involved so far and it would be rather awkward to step-in directly. Regarding the support to QoS of the streaming, it may be worth to mention Software Defined Networks approaches (e.g. OpenFlow). It is true that this is not yet a reality in backbones (btw Geant is already working on it), but this applies in many cases also to more basic functionalities we assume to rely on today (telcos have old equipments and they are not always eager to invest on replacing them), for example, when you send a multi-cast packet, in some point moving from a network to another you need specific routing devices supporting the handover of the multi-cast between the two networks; if the second network does not support it (which often happens), basically it is converted the streaming unicast for that network... not very efficient for sure :) So it may be worth to understand what SDN approaches may overcome in this respect. Please feel free to do whatever you feel with this comment :) Best, Federico -- Dr. Federico M. Facca CREATE-NET Via alla Cascata 56/D 38123 Povo Trento (Italy) T +39 0461 408400 (1669) F +39 0461 421157 E federico.facca at create-net.org W www.create-net.org From denis.mischler at technicolor.com Wed Jul 25 17:34:56 2012 From: denis.mischler at technicolor.com (Mischler Denis) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:34:56 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE Streaming Message-ID: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C50002504CA88B@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> Dear all The streaming enabler is on the wiki http://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/Materializing_Data/Context_Management_in_FI-WARE#Stream-oriented_Generic_Enablers and I tried to add a goal for each epic. If some of you have time to go through this, I would be happy to receive last comments. Remark : I included a proposal from Federico on Software Defined Networks in the "ManageMonitor" epic. Best regards Denis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From federico.facca at create-net.org Thu Jul 26 15:08:47 2012 From: federico.facca at create-net.org (Federico M. Facca) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:08:47 +0200 Subject: [Fiware-streaming] Streaming GE In-Reply-To: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C50002504CA7F2@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> References: <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C5000250362302@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> <500FEEF6.9040107@create-net.org> <189C15C1ADF61544BD5A11DCE7D5C50002504CA7F2@MOPESMBX01.eu.thmulti.com> Message-ID: <5011415F.6070503@create-net.org> Hi Denis, sound ok with me! Cheers, Federico On 25/07/12 16.51, Mischler Denis wrote: > Federico, > Please give a look to http://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/FIWARE.Epic.Stream-oriented.ManagementMonitoring > I extended Monitoring to Manage and Monitor and included the Sw Defined Netw approache in there. > > Denis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Federico M. Facca [mailto:federico.facca at create-net.org] > Sent: mercredi 25 juillet 2012 15:05 > To: Mischler Denis > Subject: Streaming GE > > Dear Denis, > I am not bringing this to the discussion in the call, since I was not > involved so far and it would be rather awkward to step-in directly. > > Regarding the support to QoS of the streaming, it may be worth to > mention Software Defined Networks approaches (e.g. OpenFlow). It is true > that this is not yet a reality in backbones (btw Geant is already > working on it), but this applies in many cases also to more basic > functionalities we assume to rely on today (telcos have old equipments > and they are not always eager to invest on replacing them), for example, > when you send a multi-cast packet, in some point moving from a network > to another you need specific routing devices supporting the handover of > the multi-cast between the two networks; if the second network does not > support it (which often happens), basically it is converted the > streaming unicast for that network... not very efficient for sure :) > > So it may be worth to understand what SDN approaches may overcome in > this respect. > > Please feel free to do whatever you feel with this comment :) > > Best, > Federico > -- Dr. Federico M. Facca CREATE-NET Via alla Cascata 56/D 38123 Povo Trento (Italy) T +39 0461 408400 (1669) F +39 0461 421157 E federico.facca at create-net.org W www.create-net.org