[Fiware-wpa] Réf. : Re: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd parties to use Fi-Ware GEs

Tanguy.Bourgault at thalesaleniaspace.com Tanguy.Bourgault at thalesaleniaspace.com
Wed Nov 28 18:04:35 CET 2012


Dear all,

As Location GE owner (data chapter), I have to say that the shareware model
will not work for us, since our plans for exploitation are either (as found
in catalogue):
- sell software licences for each platform being deployed or
- establish bilateral agreements with companies interested to develop
applications/services based on our asset.

I understand that a global licensing model would be ideal, but I hope that
there will be a place for other models like ours.

Best regards,
Tanguy Bourgault
Location GE, Thales Alenia Space



|---------+-------------------------------------------->
|         |           "Kennedy, John M"                |
|         |           <john.m.kennedy at intel.com>       |
|         |           Envoyé par :                     |
|         |           fiware-exploitation-bounces at lists|
|         |           .fi-ware.eu                      |
|         |                                            |
|         |                                            |
|         |           27/11/2012 08:25                 |
|---------+-------------------------------------------->
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                              |
  |        Pour :   Tobias Jacobs <Tobias.Jacobs at neclab.eu>                                                                      |
  |        Heijnen Henk <henk.heijnen at technicolor.com>                                                                           |
  |        "thierry.nagellen at orange.com" <thierry.nagellen at orange.com>                                                           |
  |        "fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu" <fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu>                                                           |
  |        "fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu" <fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu>                                                           |
  |        "fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu" <fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu>                                         |
  |        cc :                                                                                                                  |
  |        Objet :  Re: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd  parties     to    use   Fi-Ware GEs                    |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




Dear all,
Just to share Intel’s perspective, I confirm it would be very challenging
to get internal business and legal approval and resources to support a
shareware model for at least the Intel GE implementations.

As you may know, our current intentions are to release our Intel GE
implementations open source. Open sourcing procedures and implications are
comprehended across our internal business processes and relevant business
groups.

I hope whatever solution we come up with – if for example it is shareware
as a minimum - will not affect GE implementations that are being
open-sourced.

Kind regards,
-          John.

From: fiware-exploitation-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu
[mailto:fiware-exploitation-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Tobias
Jacobs
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 3:20 PM
To: Heijnen Henk; thierry.nagellen at orange.com; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu;
fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu
Subject: Re: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd parties to
use Fi-Ware GEs

Dear all,

Thanks for discussing the topic.

Not sure if I fully understand the discussion, but
would it be possible to make the shareware model something like the
minimum? In the sense that all GE implementations can be used at least
until the that deadline? Allowing an extended usage period,
implementing/not implementing the deadline in the code, open sourcing,
etc., would still be a matter of the GE implementation?

In that case projects using the GEs can be sure that at least until this
and that time they can use whatever GE they are interested in.

Best regards
Tobias



From: Heijnen Henk [mailto:henk.heijnen at technicolor.com]
Sent: Donnerstag, 22. November 2012 14:39
To: thierry.nagellen at orange.com; Tobias Jacobs; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu
; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu
Subject: RE: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd parties to
use Fi-Ware GEs

Having large companies managing a shareware model will not be an easy task
(I agree, it is simple for “simple developers” but do you know how to
implement that inside Orange for example ???)

On the tech side: what about small HW that do not have a local knowledge of
time/date or on which, time/date can be user-modified???
Anyway, adding a duration limitation inside a GE you are giving the source
code for is worthless (same for any protection scheme of course) and not
giving 100% of the GE source code will be a violation of the GPL (or
equivalent) licenses (I assume everybody is using open source inside its GE
???). Maybe a centralized license manage could help ? (assuming we can
obfuscate the protection code in some way)



Henk  HEIJNEN
Manager, Cooperative Projects
cid:image003.jpg at 01CAA051.86578C00
Technology & Research
Funded & Cooperative Programs
975 avenue des champs blancs - CS 17616
35576 Cesson-Sévigné cedex - FRANCE
Tél:  +33 2 99 27 33 08 -  GSM: +33 6 72 39 26 24

From: thierry.nagellen at orange.com [mailto:thierry.nagellen at orange.com]
Sent: jeudi 22 novembre 2012 14:30
To: Heijnen Henk; Tobias Jacobs; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu;
fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu
Subject: RE: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd parties to
use Fi-Ware GEs

Hi Henk,

Regarding your concern the right approach in a first step could be just to
put a deadline in the code to avoid managing licenses. People will have to
download a new version when the first one ends up. Regarding the large
number of instances you expect typically before the 2nd release, and then
before the 3rd release? For the last 2 years of the program I think it
could be completely different, of course. But anyway, I think that if some
simple developers succeed to manage sharewares in this way, it should not
be impossible for Fi-Ware and the companies involved to do it also.

BR
Thierry

De : Heijnen Henk [mailto:henk.heijnen at technicolor.com]
Envoyé : jeudi 22 novembre 2012 13:45
À : NAGELLEN Thierry OLNC/OLPS; Tobias Jacobs; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu;
fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu
Objet : RE: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd parties to use
Fi-Ware GEs

Hello Thierry, all,

I have some remarks indeed.

The shareware model could be ok BUT it is not easily applicable to some of
the GEs. Mainly for GEs that will be on the “terminal side” (IoT GEs, I2ND
GEs …). These GEs are expected to be instantiated in large volumes (they
are parts of terminals) and having to manage licenses for such items will
be a nightmare. Having to “control” that these items have been legitimately
licensed will even be worse, we might have to develop code dedicated to
checking that an item is properly licensed, this verification code would
have to be developed using technologies found in content management (for
example, video game copy protection) that might be so complex they actually
will be more expensive to implement than the piece of code they will
protect.

Maybe this “shareware licensing scheme” might become a new GE by itself ??
(if the “terminal-side” SW is easy to port / implement) …

On top of that, we (partners) will have to commercially manage these
licenses. This means we must have a dedicated team granting licenses
numbers to others and collecting money out of that. Who amongst the
partners have such a group in its company???

Kind regards
H

Henk  HEIJNEN
Manager, Cooperative Projects
cid:image003.jpg at 01CAA051.86578C00
Technology & Research
Funded & Cooperative Programs
975 avenue des champs blancs - CS 17616
35576 Cesson-Sévigné cedex - FRANCE
Tél:  +33 2 99 27 33 08 -  GSM: +33 6 72 39 26 24

From: fiware-exploitation-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [
mailto:fiware-exploitation-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of
thierry.nagellen at orange.com
Sent: jeudi 22 novembre 2012 12:30
To: Tobias Jacobs; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu
; fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu
Subject: Re: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd parties to
use Fi-Ware GEs

Dear all,

Except NEC answer, there is no other contribution. I could interpret that
as it is not a crucial point or nobody would really try to implement a
fi-ware instance for 3rd parties which are not involved in the FI PPP. Or
maybe some of you prefer also spend lots of time with lawyers to solve the
FRAND issues with all GE owners…

Maybe I should an email requesting for an free open source from all GE
owners to have more feedback.

BR
Thierry

De : Tobias Jacobs [mailto:Tobias.Jacobs at neclab.eu]
Envoyé : mercredi 21 novembre 2012 13:40
À : NAGELLEN Thierry OLNC/OLPS; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu;
fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu
Objet : RE: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd parties to use
Fi-Ware GEs

Dear Thierry,

Although we have to check with NEC’s license policy before making a final
statement on this, I like to say already now that the shareware model
sounds very attractive so us in comparison with both open sourcing and
commercialization. The benefit for the GE users is indeed a strong argument
for taking that road.
As a statement on the license is due before the review next week, it would
be good if a decision on this issue could be made as soon as possible.
How was the resonance in Seville?

Best regards
Tobias

From: fiware-exploitation-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [
mailto:fiware-exploitation-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of
thierry.nagellen at orange.com
Sent: Mittwoch, 21. November 2012 10:11
To: fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu;
fiware-exploitation at lists.fi-ware.eu
Subject: [Fiware-exploitation] Shareware approach ofr 3rd parties to use
Fi-Ware GEs

Dear all,

As I explained in Seville, but of course not all partners were there, to
put in place a Fi-Ware instance should be a nightmare if a partner has to
deal with all GE owners to know under which conditions it could use the GEs
for 3rd parties involvement and to launch an ecosystem. This type of
negotiation would first take lots of time and second does not support a
business model approach for a Fi-Ware instance because you cannot define
your price before to close all negotiations with each GE owner.

The other approach is first to avoid any legal trouble trying to change FI
PPP approach and opening GE use to 3rd parties which will not sign the
Collaboration Agreement. I fully understand that our legal process are not
the same in each company but I expect that what I propose could have the
lower legal impact.

What is a shareware approach? Two specific issues with a software: first
you can limit the set of features till user who downloads your software pay
for it, second you can put a deadline after which the software will not be
available on your computer (another way is to ask for a license number, so
as a registered member you can install the software and the licence give
you a deadline)

From a technical point of view, and because we propose innovative service
for Future Internet (at least I expect so for all GEs ;-) ) it is not
relevant to limit the features you can use when you download and use a GE.
But it is very easy to put a deadline inside the code to be sure for
example that an user will have to update the GE with a new release
(typically release 2 end of April and then 3rd release). We can also follow
how many times a GE Reference Instance is really downloaded and if it is
successful. This approach could support for all GE owner a business model
approach analyzing what is the concrete value users will be able to
identify using the GE.
In this approach we do not have to ask for money also, from my point of
view, to avoid any financial process.
In this approach, we do not have also to provide a commercial support from
our companies for GE RI because we all know that it is very difficult to
put in place and we have to demonstrate the ROI for each of them before.

This shareware approach should not have a strong legal impact because each
of us has not to provide some source code and will not decide any
commercial support which could involve the company in legal matters.

Your feedback is welcome and expected and at least Orange expects to
deliver its own GE RI in this way to support a strong launch new
ecosystems.

Best regards
Thierry Nagellen
Program Manager Future Internet
Orange Labs Networks & Carriers
905 rue Albert Einstein
06921 Sophia Antipolis Cedex
+33 492 94 52 84
+33 679 85 08 44

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Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete
altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange is not liable for
messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete
altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
information that may be protected by law;
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