dear juanjo, the wp9 team is already working with a single sign-on mechanism, actually it is about ready and it involves also people from upm. besides it has an interface that, following the simplicity of the google interface, can be used for the oil portal allowing access to all the services and applications (attached a ppt). can we discuss about this and do not waste effort in parallel tasks? ciao, stefano 2013/6/19 Juanjo Hierro <jhierro at tid.es> > On 18/06/13 14:09, Sandfuchs, Thorsten wrote: > > Hi Juanjo, > > Actually the world is complex – and I only depicted this complexity and > tried to simplify or find a reasonable solution that I can understand and > talk about in front of others. But failed initially. In the end legal > relationships are quite easy, especially if you pin it down to one or more > parties interconnecting between each other and the need to have some kind > of contractual agreement between these parties. > > > > I learned now (as well from your comments) that the FI-PPP CA & GA > actually _*is*_ governing the OIL contributions by GE-software providers > towards the FI-WARE instance provider hosting the OIL, in some sense. This > simplifies already a lot, as you outlined. Furthermore the CA&GA seems to > allow the FI-WARE instance provider to enable others to host “Dedicated > SaaS” instances – The FI-WARE instance provider only should make sure that > they sign the T&U of the OIL. Responsible party of the provisioned service > still is the acting body (in one hand the GE instance provider on the other > hand the FI-WARE instance provider.) > > Additionally the CA&GA “commitments“ will hold for the period after M36. > > The CA & GA obviously do not complete regulate how this access will be > allowed, but outline the intension and the final result. > > > > Therefore we are on the same page. > > > Great ! > > > > > I still can’t clearly see how the services requests will be (on a > technical level) governed to be allowed from parties only that signed the > OIL T&U – but I’m happy to learn here as well. > > > Let me elaborate on the vision ... > > First of all, we will have to implement the concept of "user account" in > FI-WARE OIL. That is normal and I trust that potential users will > understand that they have to create user accounts in order to use FI-WARE > OIL. > > Second, we will have to implement a mechanism that will force potential > users to read and accept the FI-WARE OIL terms and conditions if they want > to create a user account. > > The UPM (Juan Quemada's team, working in the Cloud chapter) will deal > will implementation of the FI-WARE OIL portal that deals with creation and > management of user accounts, so they will implement the mechanism mentioned > above. > > Last but not least, users will have to authenticate to make use of > services provided by GEi. On the other hand, client applications will be > required to obtain a valid OAuth2 token in order to issue any request to > any FI-WARE GEi. Creation of such a token will require the > authentication of users on behalf of which client applications will issue > requests, otherwise the token will not be recognized as valid. This > should prevent requests from non-valid users. > > > > > I updated the table down below – so some cells are now filled. Others are > still open: who acts as the FI-WARE instance provider in case of OIL? The > Cloud blueprint Manager, TID, Red.IS or a given set of these parties? > > > I'm not sure I understand the table ... I would need that you clarify > what will be the exact meaning of each cell ... I prefer to wait for that > explanation before giving my take on possible values ... > > > > In any case I’m happy for these insights. They will allow me and hopefully > others to clarify this as well towards our GE contributors within the WPs. > As similar questions might arise, once this fully hits the consortium. > > > I agree that all this exercise is useful. Thanks for raising your > concerns because many people may have similar ones. > > Best regards, > > -- Juanjo > > > > > Best, > > /Thorsten > > > > > > > > *From:* Juanjo Hierro [mailto:jhierro at tid.es <jhierro at tid.es>] > *Sent:* Dienstag, 18. Juni 2013 10:36 > *To:* Sandfuchs, Thorsten > *Cc:* Garino Pierangelo; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; > fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu > *Subject:* Re: [Fiware-wpa] R: [Fiware-wpl] Joint WPLs/WPAs follow-up > confcalls today are cancelled IN ORDER TO free time to provide > contributions to the form to be delivered to the EC > > > > On 18/06/13 10:04, Sandfuchs, Thorsten wrote: > > Thanks for the comments, I compiled a list of open questions/matrix and > drew a picture to outline at least what I so far understood – see > attachment for high-res and the graphml-version of the thing. > > > > Can we perhaps jointly fill the missing cells and clarify open questions? > > > > Especially as we seem to not have a legal framework for the OIL, my > current assumption would be > > 1. That every “using company” (Target audience) needs to sign a > respective “Terms of Use” bilaterally with all the GE instance providers in > order to request allowance to a single GE instance. The GE-instance > provider takes full responsibility for his own GE instance. > > > Why should we make things so complicated ? IMHO, a suggestion like > this will directly lead us to failure. If any target user finally find > things so complicated to use in FI-WARE OIL, they will refuse using the > FI-WARE OIL. > > This is similarly to the single sign-on. Users do not accept well > portals that do not implement a single sign-on. Terms and conditions > should be common and would need to be signed to create a user account in > the FI-WARE OIL. Then, everything that has been made available to FI-WARE > OIL users will be subject to the FI-WARE OIL terms and conditions. > > > 2. For providing and redistributing software outside of the PPP, > the PPP-CA does not hold any more, therefore all GE-*software* providers > (FI-WARE partners) need to sign something with the “*FI-WARE Instance*Provider” to allow the latter to redistribute their software within the OIL > scope > > > You seem to forget that launching the FI-WARE OIL was part of the DoW, > therefore the Grant Agreement you have signed. Did you sign anything with > someone to run the FI-WARE Tesbed provided to UC projects ? Yes, a > contract with the EC where it was stated that you had to do so :-) I > don't believe that nothing else has to be signed. You are not providing > software of your GE to anyone else to install it in the FI-WARE OIL on your > behalf and then make it accessible to third parties. Same as it happened > with the FI-WARE Testbed, FI-WARE GEi owners will have to deploy their GEis > in the FI-WARE OIL Cloud and make them accessible to third parties (through > the Service End Point they will advertise through the FI-WARE Catalogue) or > setup blueprint templates that will allow third parties to deploy dedicated > FI-WARE GEi instances on their own. > > The exercise is pretty simple: do you want to comply with the Grant > Agreement you have signed and make your GEi accessible in OIL ? You can a) > go there and deploy your GEi, advertise the Service End Point through the > FI-WARE Catalogue (where it will be clearly stated that it is provided > through the OIL so use terms and conditions apply) and/or b) go there and > configure a blueprint template that can be used in combination with Cloud > blueprint management tools allowing third parties to create and deploy in > OIL their own dedicated instances: an action that can only be made by > registered users of the OIL (i.e., users who have created an account) who > have had to adhere to the FI-WARE OIL terms and conditions. > > > 3. If a 3rd party wants to act as GE-Instance provider (Dedicated > SaaS), he needs to sign > > a. Something with the FI-WARE Instance Provider (in order to allow > him to host software) > > b. Something with the GE-software provider (in order to get > allowance for redistribution of the GE software) – if this allowance is not > given explicitly already with “2.” > > > > ð My assumption: The OIL “Terms of Use” currently in preparation would > only cover Point 3 and not point 1 and 2. > > > > What do you think – did I miss something? > > > You are making things unnecessarily complicated. > > Best regards, > > -- Juanjo > > > > ð For all the relevant contracting it might be good to establish a set > of blueprints to ease up use and consumption of this construct. I doubt > that all of this can be handled by a single “Terms of Use” for the OIL, as > currently prepared. But please correct me if I’m wrong. > > > > The architecture depicts the instances provided by different entities from > left to right in order of “more public” use – e.g. left is the Testbed and > right are the various commercial clouds for 2014++ > > > > In the Platform part itself I tried to make the various involved roles > explicit with an example of UPM – on the left side UPM is proving the > software “Application Mashup” (bottom right “*<UPM>*”) and the instance. > While on the right side it is depicted how e.g. ENVIROFI would host a > dedicated SaaS instance of the UPM GE. > > > > As said – I tried to gather these dimensions in the following table (as > well as part of the attached pptx). Dimensions and related names are not > fixed, just a first shot to get hold of the complexity. > > > > > > > > *Dimension* > > *Testbed > M27 (v2.3)* > > *XIFI > M30 (v3)* > > *OIL > M29-M36* > > *OIL > M36+* > > *Com. > 2014+* > > *FI-WARE Instance Provider* > > TID (?) > > > > Individual > > *FI-WARE Hosting Provider* > > Red.IS > > > > Individual > > *GE Instance Provider* > > FI-WARE Partners (FP) > > FI-WARE Partners (FP) > > FI-WARE Partners (FP) & 3rd party > > FI-WARE Partners (FP) & 3rd party > > Individual > > *Legal Framework* > > PPP-CA > > PPP-CA > > PPP-CA > > PPP-CA > > *Terms of use* > > PPP-CA > > PPP-CA > > OIL-T&U > > OIL-T&U > > *Scope* > > Non-productive > research&exp. > > Non-productive > research&exp. > > Non-productive > research&exp. > > *Support/SLA from instance provider* > > > > > > *Support/SLA from GE provider* > > Best effort > > Bilateral with XiFi > > Best effort > > Best effort > > Bilateral > > *Target audience* > > UC Phase 1 > > UC Phase 2 > > FI-PPP externals > > FI-PPP externals > > FI-PPP externals > > > > > > > > *From:* Juanjo Hierro [mailto:jhierro at tid.es <jhierro at tid.es>] > *Sent:* Montag, 17. Juni 2013 15:04 > *To:* Sandfuchs, Thorsten > *Cc:* Garino Pierangelo; fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; > fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu > *Subject:* Re: [Fiware-wpa] R: [Fiware-wpl] Joint WPLs/WPAs follow-up > confcalls today are cancelled IN ORDER TO free time to provide > contributions to the form to be delivered to the EC > > > > Dear Thorsten, > > The description of the Use Cases that are listed on the wiki looked a > bit weird but I actually asked our TID legal deparment to prepare a first > draft of the terms and conditions that would apply to the FI-WARE OIL under > the assumption that we will actually support UC1 to UC3, of course, this > meaning that the proper clauses for each would have to be incorporated. > My interpretation of these UCs are as follows: > > - UC1: Third parties will be able to use the FI-WARE OIL to > play/experiment with FI-WARE GEis deployed on the FI-WARE OIL > - UC2: Third parties will be able to use the FI-WARE OIL to test > experimental applications developed based on FI-WARE GEis deployed on the > FI-WARE OIL and they will be able to deploy those experimental applications > on the FI-WARE OIL > - UC3: Experimental applications deployed on the FI-WARE OIL will be > made accessible to potential testing users or users participating in > demos/showcases > > > Note that we would support the three of them which are actually > compatible. > > I don't understand very well what we refer as UC4 and, in any case, > there were no clauses proposed to cover them which had helped to understand > the scope for that UC. We understood it was a special case of UC3, where > the experimental application can be considered itself a GE (or > domain-specific common enabler). However, this wouldn't mean any > difference with respect to terms and conditions to be defined. > > Given said the above, the following main ingredients/principles have > been considered for development of the first draft of terms and conditions > (of course, more elaborated legal wording will come in the draft but I > guess you can find this summary more comprehensive ;-): > > - FI-WARE GEis available on FI-WARE OIL can only be used for > experimental purposes. Subscribers to terms and conditions of the FI-WARE > OIL can only develop experimental applications based on FI-WARE GEis > available through the FI-WARE OIL. This means that such applications > cannot be providing any kind of service to third parties. > - FI-WARE GEis available through the FI-WARE OIL will be provided "as > is" so no responsibility will be assumed (liability) > - FI-WARE GEi owners will provide "best-effort" support to usage of > FI-WARE GEis made available through the FI-WARE OIL. > - The specific models for which support of a given FI-WARE GEi will be > provided in the FI-WARE OIL (even if we are talking about "best-effort" > support) will be described in the corresponding entry in the FI-WARE > Catalogue. Note: If you ask me, I would highly recommend FI-WARE GEi > owners to limit the models for which support is going to be provided to any > of the following ones (binaries or source code may also be made available > for download and local deployment but I would then recommend to carefully > give a though to what kind of "best-effort" support you can provide): > > > - Global SaaS instances, i.e., instances of the FI-WARE GEi that has > been deployed on the FI-WARE OIL by the GEi owner, offering its functions > "as a Service" through well-defined APIs served at defined Service End > Points > - Dedicated SaaS instances, i.e., meaning that it can be > instantiated in the FI-WARE Cloud and provided "as a Service" using FI-WARE > Cloud tools > > > - FI-WARE partners will not be responsible from malicious requests or > malitious applications running on OIL > - We will not be responsible for right usage of data in the FI-WARE > OIL. It is assumed that FI-WARE OIL users will comply with any applicable > laws regarding data they are using > - We have rights to take any statistical data that help to improve > operations of the FI-WARE OIL or may help to advertise OIL (in this latter > case, being able to publish what GEis are being used, etc) > - We can interrupt or get rid of any applications running on OIL > unilaterally without prior notice if we detect any malitious behaviour or > this is required for the right performance of OIL, comply with existing > laws, etc > - We can in general break the contract with users with prior notice of > max 15 days even in the case of proper usage > - Any application that is based on FI-WARE GEis deployed on OIL should > shown "powered by FI-WARE" > - Resources offered to FI-WARE users will in any case be limited and > subject to quotas, expiration times, etc > > > As you see, most of these ingredients had been listed on the wiki. > > I hope that we will be able to share soon this first draft of the > FI-WARE OIL terms and conditions so that legal departments can agree on the > concrete wording that will support the above ingredients. > > Cheers, > > -- Juanjo > > ------------- > > Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital > > website: www.tid.es > > email: jhierro at tid.es > > twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro > > > > FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator > > and Chief Architect > > > > You can follow FI-WARE at: > > website: http://www.fi-ware.eu > > facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 > > twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware > > linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 > > On 17/06/13 10:50, Sandfuchs, Thorsten wrote: > > Hi Juanjo, > > Concerning the messaging around the OIL the well-known picture down below > comes to my mind. > > > > I think it is hard to have a messaging towards the outside, as long as we > don’t have a clear internal view on the “thing”. Therefore it is vital that > you share more of the plan going forward and onboard us – e.g. in a session > as proposed by Andrea on the topic. Currently I was quite “astonished” > about the level of depth and engagement plan you layed out in front of the > reviewers. > > > > Let me remind everybody on the 4 basic use cases we gathered in Rome – > documented here: > https://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fi-ware-private/index.php/FI-WARE_Open_Innovation_Lab_Terms_and_Condition_Ingredients > > For me many of the open questions are still “open” and pending some > pragmatic decisions. > > > > Especially for the “Archievements” document we need to have crystal clear > statements what it _*is*_ and what it’s _*not*_ - otherwise nobody can > possibly use the thing… > > > > Best, > > /Thorsten > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fiware-wpa-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ > mailto:fiware-wpa-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu<fiware-wpa-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu>] > On Behalf Of Juanjo Hierro > Sent: Montag, 17. Juni 2013 09:22 > To: Garino Pierangelo > Cc: fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu > Subject: Re: [Fiware-wpa] R: [Fiware-wpl] Joint WPLs/WPAs follow-up > confcalls today are cancelled IN ORDER TO free time to provide > contributions to the form to be delivered to the EC > > > > > > I assume that you had booked the timeslots from 11:00 to 12:30 and > > from 14:30 to 16:00 to the joint WPLs/WPAs follow-up confcall. > > > > Therefore, If I'm freeing those slots they become free time for you > > but you must devote that time to review and contribute to the form, not > > to carry out any other task. > > > > I'm pretty sure that you may provide some more info that the one > > currently provided to the part B, C and D sections. You just have to > > think about what you will write if you were assigned the task to write > > down the answer to those sections. You haven't contributed any input > > to part C nor D. > > > > BTW, there is already content for section D you may be willing to > revise. > > > > Cheers, > > > > -- Juanjo > > > > ------------- > > Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital > > website: www.tid.es > > email: jhierro at tid.es > > twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro > > > > FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator > > and Chief Architect > > > > You can follow FI-WARE at: > > website: http://www.fi-ware.eu > > facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 > > twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware > > linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 > > > > On 17/06/13 08:42, Garino Pierangelo wrote: > > > Hi Juanjo, > > > > > > my comments to Part B of the form have been added yesterday. > > > One further comment: if you plan to have a call before submitting the > form, it would be better to know in advance to avoid issues in attending. > > > > > > BR > > > Pier > > > > > > > > > -----Messaggio originale----- > > > Da: fiware-wpl-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [ > mailto:fiware-wpl-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu<fiware-wpl-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu>] > Per conto di Juanjo Hierro > > > Inviato: lunedì 17 giugno 2013 08:07 > > > A: fiware-wpl at lists.fi-ware.eu; fiware-wpa at lists.fi-ware.eu > > > Oggetto: [Fiware-wpl] Joint WPLs/WPAs follow-up confcalls today are > cancelled IN ORDER TO free time to provide contributions to the form to be > delivered to the EC > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > We will cancel the joint WPLs/WPAs follow-up confcalls scheduled for > today. > > > > > > This will help that you free at least 3 hours to provide > > > input/comments to the form to be delivered to the EC. Therefore you > > > don't have any excuse :-) > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > -- Juanjo > > > > > > ------------- > > > Product Development and Innovation (PDI) - Telefonica Digital > > > website: www.tid.es > > > email: jhierro at tid.es > > > twitter: twitter.com/JuanjoHierro > > > > > > FI-WARE (European Future Internet Core Platform) Coordinator and Chief > Architect > > > > > > You can follow FI-WARE at: > > > website: http://www.fi-ware.eu > > > facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FI-WARE/251366491587242 > > > twitter: http://twitter.com/FIware > > > linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/FIWARE-4239932 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar > nuestra política de envío y recepción de correo electrónico en el enlace > situado más abajo. > > > This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. 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