Hi Philipp, We are not going to support the "old" releases of KIARA anymore, neither we are going to promote/recommend their use in the FI-WARE context. What we have already is not going to be the FI-WARE middleware. This is the message I got in the FI-CORE meeting. We need to create a brand new, very easy to use, middleware. To do so we can reuse some of our ideas and code, but it is entirely a new task. In this new task, our FIRST goal is the usability, being the performance and exotic features something we should sacrify if those add complexity to the user. As far I know, we have no users outside of DFKI, and if we have, they are really very few. Those users should migrate to the "new KIARA" as soon we have something usable. Regards, Jaime. -----Original Message----- From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:philipp.slusallek at dfki.de] Sent: miércoles, 24 de septiembre de 2014 16:29 To: Thomas Michael Bohnert; Thomas Michael Bohnert; Jaime Martin Losa; Dmitri Rubinstein; KIARA Mailing List; Garino Pierangelo Subject: Re: [Miwi-middleware] KIARA/Java on github Hi Thomas, I have raised concern regarding the support of current users (within the FI-PPP!) of existing GEis. This is a real question that we face and that that people will certainly approach me with. Why do you have a problem with that very relevant issue? Your write: "Agreement is to put ALL existing implementations on hold". I cannot agree with the statement in this strict form for the above reasons. All I am arguing is that some (smaller) efforts be reserved for support of existing and actively used technology. I also made it clear that I fully support the focus of our work on the Java API as suggested, Just not exclusively. I hope this is fine with all. Best, Philipp Am 24.09.2014 um 11:04 schrieb Thomas Michael Bohnert: > Philipp, > > I will stop this discussion here. It is pointless and a waste of time. > > We are a team and we have to consider the exact context and > organisationl structures and responsibilities. > > As I have said so many times in the past, we all have good reasons why > this is good and this is bad and this is better than this or that. > > But the point now is to stop this waste of time with arguing but to > start something that is first and foremost driven by a joint effort > and team. > > I really hope you can accept this and look forward to your > contribution as a team member. > > Best - Thomas > > > > > On 09/24/2014 06:39 AM, Philipp Slusallek wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Sorry Thomas, for some reason I had not seen your email before I sent >> mine last night. Thanks for the update. Has the text you sent been >> agreed upon by Chapter 1.8 at the meeting in Madrid or is this more a >> summary of the discussions that took place at the meeting? >> >> >> Regarding the external expert: I believe Juanjo himself is probably >> one of the best experts we could find. If he suggested others, this >> is probably fine as well. Who is it that you are contacting now? >> >> >> While I very much agree (as I already told you) to focus on the Java >> version, I disagree strongly that we should stop all activities on >> the existing implementations. We must at least maintain the current >> technology and support it where necessary. >> >> Let's not forget that there are implementations that make active use >> of KIARA. They are within FI-WARE (Sync GE, CH. 1.5) as well as >> running demos within the FI-Content and FITMAN projects that make use >> of the existing KIARA GEi. Even more uses are planned within the next >> few months. >> >> Abandoning these fully working GEs without any technical reasons for >> doing so, would be damaging to FIWARE and the GE process. As you >> state, the Java version (especially if we start from an empty page) >> will take significant time to become available (you have even talked >> about one year). This is not acceptable for the existing users of the technology. >> Additionally, in those projects the C/C++ interface is needed, which >> would likely take even longer to become available. >> >> Also I see no impact whatsoever that the "old" implementationcould >> have on the new Java API. Once we have agreed on a new API for Java, >> it should not be too difficult to backport that to the current C/C++ >> version (at least if we keep that goal in mind during our discussion, >> which we should do anyway). Given the flexible design of current >> KIARA implementation, we should even be able to do so without having >> to abandon the current API and have them coexist for compatibility >> until existing users had a chance to switch over. >> >> Also there should not be any reason that the new Java version and the >> "old" implementations cannot interoperate, even while they are using >> different API approaches. So, I see also no reason that the "old" >> design would limit how we design the new Java API and implementation >> (which seems something that Jaime is very worried about). >> >> So unless someone comes up with solid technical reasons for >> abandoning the current work (which I cannot see and which have never >> been presented since we started our working on KIARA), we should >> refrain from suggesting to waste EU money that has been spend on the >> current implementations. >> >> To be clear, I am perfectly fine is focusing the current development >> on Java (as we have started some time ago already), I am just >> opposing to abandon the existing work as your text seems to suggest. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Philipp >> >> >> Am 23.09.2014 um 12:19 schrieb Thomas Michael Bohnert: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Nice to see that there is so much energy behind our proposal to >>> start over with a Java version. If we continue like that there will >>> be soon a very nice product that serves the needs of our primary >>> customers - that is the FIWARE community. >>> >>> About the next steps. >>> >>> First, we need to complete the hand-over from MIWI to I2ND. This >>> includes all the stuff agreed upon during the WPL/WPA meetings, like >>> new mailing lists, etc. But this is mostly admin stuff. >>> >>> One item is the weeky KIARA meeting. This is now linked to Task >>> 1.8.3 and to be taken over by eProsima (Jaime?). That means to >>> prepare agendas in advance, take minutes, record action items, >>> report to the WPA/WPL, and any other task related to the task leadership. >>> >>> Regarding the technical directions to be taken. Agreement is to put >>> ALL existing implementations on hold and to start over with the JAVA >>> version. Starting point is a blank page but we will carefully >>> analyze existing code once we have agreed on the design, i.e. issues >>> first and foremost the KIARA API. >>> >>> About the KIARA API. Here the most important issue is to define an >>> API that meets the expectations of professional software developers. >>> Since we have very good expertises in the team, with a broad >>> spectrum of know-how and experiences we need to find a way to >>> consolidate this into one approach and ultimately specification. One >>> element in achieving this is to consult an external expert that will >>> take a fresh and independent view on things and thus secure a design >>> that meets this requirement. The exact candidate is not yet decided >>> (do you have proposals?) but there is already one person we know about and we currently are contacting. >>> >>> Action items: >>> Jaime - please prepare an agenda for coming Friday meeting, share it >>> at least a day before with the team such that we can add items to >>> the agenda in advance. >>> >>> We will discuss any aspect in next Friday's meeting, that is >>> technical aspects as well as implementation and procedures on task level. >>> >>> Thanks for your contributions and commitment in advance! >>> >>> Christof and Thomas >>> >>> On 09/22/2014 04:15 PM, Jaime Martin Losa wrote: >>>> Hi Philipp, >>>> >>>> This time we are going to start with the design, and not with >>>> the code, and this design should be externally approved. Yes we >>>> should start with a blank page. >>>> >>>> We didn't developed any document. Basically the Java Idea and >>>> the external audit has come from Juanjo. >>>> >>>> We are working now in a proposal (design, spec) of API. Next >>>> Friday meeting, we should start talking about the first design >>>> tasks of JAVA KIARA. >>>> >>>> Our main goal should be the usability, because we need >>>> something stable and easy within one year. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Jaime. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:philipp.slusallek at dfki.de] >>>> Sent: lunes, 22 de septiembre de 2014 16:07 >>>> To: Jaime Martin Losa; Dmitri Rubinstein; KIARA Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [Miwi-middleware] KIARA/Java on github >>>> >>>> Hi Jaime, >>>> >>>> Java was important for us before and Dmitri has worked on this >>>> implementation for quite some time now. we are ualready sing this >>>> now for another project. But changing it for better versions is >>>> always a good thing and we are very open for it. >>>> >>>> Please do not blame us for having already done some of the work >>>> that is now becoming relevant also for the project as a whole. >>>> >>>> You/we do not have to use this directly, but I see this as an >>>> interesting basis that we can use as a starting point for our >>>> discussions. This is why we are making it available for all to look >>>> at (and please do so). >>>> >>>> Having something that is already working and is already compatible >>>> with our previous work is (at least from my point of view) a better >>>> place to start than a blank page. I hope you and others agree. >>>> >>>> As in the C/C++ version we are very open to suggestions and >>>> alternative interfaces and implementations. So please feel free to >>>> suggest those, ideally directly with your implementation. >>>> Fortunately, we will not have the C/C++ issues, so we should be in >>>> a much better place to collaborate based on comparing each of our >>>> concepts and actual implementations of them. >>>> >>>> I am looking forward to a closer collaboration within FI-Core. >>>> >>>> BTW, at the Kickoff you have apparently developed a document >>>> describing how you (as in KIARA group) would want o work together. >>>> We have not been in the loop and so it would be good to get that >>>> document, so we are able to comment (and hopefully just agree to it). >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Philipp >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 22.09.2014 um 15:37 schrieb Jaime Martin Losa: >>>>> Dmitri, we are not going to make the same mistake twice. >>>>> >>>>> First we have to define what we want to do, an API that >>>>> should be externally approved, the different modules, and then >>>>> start to assign tasks. >>>>> >>>>> Don't start just writing code without any design consensus >>>>> and later try the other parties to follow you. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Jaime. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: miwi-middleware-bounces at lists.fi-ware.org >>>>> [mailto:miwi-middleware-bounces at lists.fi-ware.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Dmitri Rubinstein >>>>> Sent: lunes, 22 de septiembre de 2014 13:10 >>>>> To: KIARA Mailing List >>>>> Subject: [Miwi-middleware] KIARA/Java on github >>>>> >>>>> I just made KIARA/Java v0.1 available on the github: >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/dmrub/kiara-java >>>>> >>>>> License: LGPL version 3 >>>>> >>>>> Current features: >>>>> >>>>> Supported transports: HTTP 1.1, TCP Block Transport >>>>> >>>>> Supported protocols: JSON RPC 2.0, JavaObjectStream (Java >>>>> serialization) >>>>> >>>>> JSON RPC 2.0, HTTP 1.1 and TCP Block Transport are compatible to >>>>> the KIARA C/C++ version. >>>>> >>>>> Example applications are in: >>>>> ./KIARA/src/test/java/de/dfki/kiara/test/AosTest.java >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Dmitri >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Miwi-middleware mailing list >>>>> Miwi-middleware at lists.fi-ware.org >>>>> https://lists.fi-ware.org/listinfo/miwi-middleware >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8172 - Release Date: >>>>> 09/08/14 Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Miwi-middleware mailing list >>>>> Miwi-middleware at lists.fi-ware.org >>>>> https://lists.fi-ware.org/listinfo/miwi-middleware >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern Geschäftsführung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. 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