[Fiware-miwi] 13:00 meeting location: CIE (Re: Oulu meet today 13:00)

Philipp Slusallek Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de
Fri Oct 25 10:51:13 CEST 2013


Hi,

I would love to get very concrete and clear feedback on the NGI GEs from 
FI-WARE. We are having a Architecture Board meeting next week and I 
could put this on that agenda still.

As you know a lot of people see 3D worlds and IoT as a perfect 
combination and want to see things happening. So we should tell them how 
to improve things to make it possible/easier.

Maybe you can set up a Google doc where we summarize this?


Best,

	Philipp


Am 25.10.2013 10:34, schrieb Tomi Sarni:
> Yes I agree in general. Just  a thought that in some use-cases this
> could be thought as an option. It has been difficult to design the API
> in a way that it would be highly dynamic in a sense that it would suite
> wide variety of application development needs.
> The NGSI 9/10
> <http://forge.fi-ware.eu/plugins/mediawiki/wiki/fiware/index.php/NGSI-9/NGSI-10_information_model>
> development in earlier GE seemed difficult to adapt and in my personal
> opinnion does allow passing interaction interface clearly enough for the
> application developer.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Philipp Slusallek
> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     With interaction I mean the user interaction. Yes, it eventually
>     gets mapped to REST (or such) calls to the device. But how you map
>     the device functionality to user interaction is a big step where
>     different applicatios will have very different assumptions and
>     interaction metaphors. Mapping them all to ageneric sensor model
>     seems very difficult.
>
>     Using a sematic annotation avoid having to create such a mapping
>     when you design the sensor, avoid having to store the model on each
>     sonsor, and pushes the mapping to the software/application
>     side,which is (in my opinion) in a much better option to decide on
>     that mapping. A fallback mapping may still be provided by the sensor
>     for the most basic cases.
>
>
>     Best,
>
>              Philipp
>
>     Am 25.10.2013 09:05, schrieb Tomi Sarni:
>
>         /It becomes more of an issue when we talk about interactivity,
>         when the
>
>         visual representation needs to react to user input in a way that is
>         consistent with the application and calls functionality in the
>         application. In other words, you have to do a mapping from the
>         sensor to
>         the application at some point along the pipeline (and back for
>         actions
>         to be performed by an actuator)./
>
>
>         Currently when a client polls a device(containing sensor and/or
>         actuators) it will receive all interaction options that
>         available for
>         the  particular sensor or actuator. These options can be then
>         accessed
>         by a HTTP POST method from the service. So there is the logical
>         mapping.
>         I can see your point though, in a way it would seem logical to
>         have that
>         XML3D model to contain states (e.g. button up and button down 3d
>         model
>         states), and i have no idea whether this is supported by XML3D, as i
>         have been busy on server/sensor side.  This way when a sensor is
>         being
>         accesses by HTTP POST call to change state to either on or off for
>         instance, the XML3D model could contain transition logic to change
>         appearance from one state to another. Alternatively there can be two
>         models for two states. When the actuator is being queried it
>         will return
>         model that corresponds to its current state.
>
>
>
>
>
>         On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Philipp Slusallek
>         <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>> wrote:
>
>              Hi Tomi,
>
>              Yes, this is definitely an interesting option and when
>         sensors offer
>              REST-ful interfaces, it should be almost trivial to add (once a
>              suitable and standardized way of how to find that data is
>         specified.
>              At least it would provide a kind of default visualization
>         in case no
>              other is available.
>
>              It becomes more of an issue when we talk about
>         interactivity, when
>              the visual representation needs to react to user input in a
>         way that
>              is consistent with the application and calls functionality
>         in the
>              application. In other words, you have to do a mapping from the
>              sensor to the application at some point along the pipeline
>         (and back
>              for actions to be performed by an actuator).
>
>              Either we specify the sensor type through some semantic
>         means (a
>              simple tag in the simplest case, a full RDF/a graph in the best
>              case) and let the application choose how to represent it or
>         we need
>              to find a way to map generic behavior of a default object to
>              application functionality. The first seems much easier to me as
>              application functionality is likely to vary much more than
>         sensor
>              functionality. And semantic sensor description have been
>         worked on
>              for a long time and are available on the market.
>
>              Of course, there are hybrid methods as well: A simple one
>         would be
>              to include a URI/URL to a default model in the semantic sensor
>              description that then gets loaded either from the sensor
>         through
>              REST (given some namespace there) or via the Web (again
>         using some
>              namespace or search strategy). Then the application can always
>              inject its own mapping to what it thinks is the best mapping.
>
>
>              Best,
>
>                       Philipp
>
>              Am 25.10.2013 07:52, schrieb Tomi Sarni:
>
>                  *Following is completely on theoretical level:*
>
>                  To mix things a little further i've been thinking about a
>                  possibility to
>                  store visual representation of sensors within the sensors
>                  themselves.
>                  Many sensor types allow HTTP POST/GET or even
>         PUT/DELETE methods
>                  (wrapped in SNMP/CoAP communication protocols for
>         instance) which in
>                  theory would allow sensor  subscribers to also publish
>                  information in
>                  sensors (e.g. upload an xml3d model). This approach
>         could be
>                  useful in
>                  cases where these sensors would have different purposes
>         of use.
>                  But the
>                  sensor may have very little space to use for the model
>         from up
>                  8-18 KB.
>                  Also the web service can attach the models to IDs
>         through use of
>                  data
>                  base. This is really just a pointer, perhaps there would be
>                  use-cases
>                  where the sensor visualization could be stored within
>         the sensor
>                  itself,
>                  i think specifically some AR solutions could benefit
>         from this.
>                  But do
>                  not let this mix up things, this perhaps reinforces the
>         fact
>                  that there
>                  need to be overlaying middleware services that attach
>         visual
>                  representation based on their own needs. One service
>         could use
>                  different
>                  3d representation for temperature sensor than another one.
>
>
>
>
>                  On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Philipp Slusallek
>                  <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>__df__ki.de <http://dfki.de>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>>> wrote:
>
>                       Hi,
>
>                       OK, now I get it. This does make sense -- at least
>         in a local
>                       scenario, where the POI data (in this example)
>         needs to be
>                  stored
>                       somewhere anyway and storing it in a component and
>         then
>                  generating
>                       the appropriate visual component does make sense.
>         Using web
>                       components or a similar mechanism we could
>         actually do the
>                  same via
>                       the DOM (as discussed for the general ECA sync
>         before).
>
>                       But even then you might actually not want to store
>         all the
>                  POI data
>                       but only the part that really matter to the
>         application
>                  (there may
>                       be much more data -- maybe not for POIs but
>         potentially for
>                  other
>                       things).
>
>                       Also in a distributed scenario, I am not so sure.
>         In that
>                  case you
>                       might want to do that mapping on the server and
>         only sync the
>                       resulting data, maybe with reference back so you
>         can still
>                  interact
>                       with the original data through a service call.
>         That is the main
>                       reason why I in general think of POI data and POI
>                  representation as
>                       separate entities.
>
>                       Regarding terminology, I think it does make sense to
>                  differntiate
>                       between the 3D scene and the application state
>         (that is not
>                  directly
>                       influencing the 3D rendering and interaction).
>         While you
>                  store them
>                       within the same data entity (but in different
>         components), they
>                       still refer to quite different things and are
>         operated on by
>                       different parts of you program (e.g. the renderer
>         only ever
>                  touches
>                       the "scene" data). We do the same within the XML3D
>         core,
>                  where we
>                       attach renderer-specific data to DOM nodes and I
>         believe
>                  three.js
>                       also does something similar within its data
>         structures. At
>                  the end,
>                       you have to store these things somewhere and there
>         are only
>                  so many
>                       way to implement it. The differences are not
>         really that big.
>
>
>                       Best,
>
>                                Philipp
>
>                       Am 24.10.2013 19:24, schrieb Toni Alatalo:
>
>                           On 24 Oct 2013, at 19:24, Philipp Slusallek
>                           <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>__df__ki.de <http://dfki.de>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>>
>                           <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>>__d__f__ki.de <http://df__ki.de>
>         <http://dfki.de>
>
>
>                           <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>__df__ki.de <http://dfki.de>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>>>> wrote:
>
>                               Good discussion!
>
>
>                           I find so too — thanks for the questions and
>         comments
>                  and all! Now
>                           briefly about just one point:
>
>                               Am 24.10.2013 17:37, schrieb Toni Alatalo:
>
>                                   integrates to the scene system too - for
>                  example if a
>                                   scene server
>                                   queries POI services, does it then
>         only use the
>                  data to
>                                   manipulate
>                                   the scene using other non-POI
>         components, or
>                  does it
>                                   often make sense
>                                   also to include POI components in the
>         scene so
>                  that the
>                                   clients get
>                                   it too automatically with the scene
>         sync and
>                  can for
>                                   example provide
>                                   POI specific GUI tools. Ofc clients
>         can query POI
>                                   services directly
>                                   too but this server centric setup is
>         also one
>                  scenario
>                                   and there the
>                                   scene integration might make sense.
>
>                               But I would say that there is a clear
>         distinction
>                  between
>                               the POI data
>                               (which you query from some service) and the
>                  visualization or
>                               representation of the POI data. Maybe you
>         are more
>                  talking
>                               about the
>                               latter here. However, there really is an
>         application
>                               dependent mapping
>                               from the POI data to its representation. Each
>                  application
>                               may choose
>                               to present the same POI data in very
>         different way
>                  and its
>                               only this
>                               resulting representation that becomes part
>         of the
>                  scene.
>
>
>                           No I was not talking about visualization or
>                  representations here
>                           but the
>                           POI data.
>
>                           non-POI in the above tried to refer to the
>         whole which
>                  covers
>                           visualisations etc :)
>
>                           Your last sentence may help to understand the
>         confusion: in
>                           these posts
>                           I’ve been using the reX entity system
>         terminology only
>                  — hoping
>                           that it
>                           is clear to discuss that way and not mix terms
>         (like
>                  I’ve tried
>                           to do in
>                           some other threads).
>
>                           There ‘scene’ does not refer to a visual /
>         graphical or any
>                           other type
>                           of scene. It does not refer to e.g. something
>         like what
>                  xml3d.js and
>                           three.js, or ogre, have as their Scene objects.
>
>                           It simply means the collection of all
>         entities. There it is
>                           perfectly
>                           valid to any kind of data which does not end
>         up to e.g. the
>                           visual scene
>                           — many components are like that.
>
>                           So in the above ‘only use the data to
>         manipulate the
>                  scene using
>                           other
>                           non-POI components’ was referring to for example
>                  creation of Mesh
>                           components if some POI is to be visualised
>         that way.
>                  The mapping
>                           that
>                           you were discussing.
>
>                           But my point was not about that but about the
>         POI data
>                  itself —
>                           and the
>                           example about some end user GUI with a widget that
>                  manipulates
>                           it. So it
>                           then gets automatically synchronised along
>         with all the
>                  other
>                           data in
>                           the application in a collaborative setting etc.
>
>                           Stepping out of the previous terminology, we
>         could perhaps
>                           translate:
>                           ‘scene’ -> ‘application state’ and ‘scene
>         server’ ->
>                           ‘synchronization
>                           server’.
>
>                           I hope this clarifies something — my apologies
>         if not..
>
>                           Cheers,
>                           ~Toni
>
>                           P.S. i sent the previous post from a foreign
>         device and
>                  accidentally
>                           with my gmail address as sender so it didn’t
>         make it to
>                  the list
>                           — so
>                           thank you for quoting it in full so I don’t
>         think we
>                  need to
>                           repost that :)
>
>                               This is essentially the Mapping stage of
>         the well-known
>                               Visualization
>                               pipeline
>
>
>         (http://www.infovis-wiki.net/______index.php/Visualization_______Pipeline
>         <http://www.infovis-wiki.net/____index.php/Visualization_____Pipeline>
>
>         <http://www.infovis-wiki.net/____index.php/Visualization_____Pipeline
>         <http://www.infovis-wiki.net/__index.php/Visualization___Pipeline>>
>
>
>
>         <http://www.infovis-wiki.net/____index.php/Visualization_____Pipeline
>         <http://www.infovis-wiki.net/__index.php/Visualization___Pipeline>
>         <http://www.infovis-wiki.net/__index.php/Visualization___Pipeline <http://www.infovis-wiki.net/index.php/Visualization_Pipeline>>>),
>
>                               except
>                               that here we also map interaction aspects
>         to an
>                  abstract scene
>                               description (XML3D) first, which then
>         performs the
>                  rendering and
>                               interaction. So you can think of this as
>         an additional
>                               "Scene" stage
>                               between "Mapping" and "Rendering".
>
>                                   I think this is a different topic, but
>         also with
>                                   real-virtual
>                                   interaction for example how to
>         facilitate nice
>                  simple
>                                   authoring of
>                                   the e.g. real-virtual object mappings
>         seems a
>                  fruitful
>                                   enough angle
>                                   to think a bit, perhaps as a case to
>         help in
>                                   understanding the entity
>                                   system & the different servers etc.
>         For example
>                  if there's a
>                                   component type 'real world link', the
>         Interface
>                  Designer
>                                   GUI shows it
>                                   automatically in the list of
>         components, ppl
>                  can just
>                                   add them to
>                                   their scenes and somehow then the
>         system just
>                  works..
>
>
>                               I am not sure what you are getting at. But
>         it would
>                  be great
>                               if the
>                               Interface Designer would allow to choose
>         such POI
>                  mappings
>                               from a
>                               predegined catalog. It seems that Xflow
>         can be used
>                  nicely for
>                               generating the mapped scene elements from some
>                  input data,
>                               e.g. using
>                               the same approach we use to provide basic
>                  primitives like
>                               cubes or
>                               spheres in XML3D. Here they are not fixed,
>         build-in
>                  tags as
>                               in X3D but
>                               can actually be added by the developer as
>         it best fits.
>
>                               For generating more complex subgraphs we
>         may have
>                  to extend the
>                               current Xflow implementation. But its at
>         least a great
>                               starting point
>                               to experiment with it. Experiments and
>         feedback
>                  would be
>                               very welcome
>                               here.
>
>                                   I don't think these discussions are
>         now hurt by us
>                                   (currently) having
>                                   alternative renderers - the entity system,
>                  formats, sync
>                                   and the
>                                   overall architecture is the same anyway.
>
>
>                               Well, some things only work in one and
>         others only
>                  in the other
>                               branch. So the above mechanism could not
>         be used to
>                               visualize POIs in
>                               the three.js branch but we do not have all the
>                  features to
>                               visualize
>                               Oulu (or whatever city) in the XML3D.js
>         branch. This
>                               definitely IS
>                               greatly limiting how we can combine the
>         GEs into
>                  more complex
>                               applications -- the untimate goal of the
>         orthogonal
>                  design
>                               of this
>                               chapter.
>
>                               And it does not even work within the same
>         chapter.
>                  It will
>                               be hard to
>                               explain to Juanjo and others from FI-WARE
>         (or the
>                  commission
>                               for that
>                               matter).
>
>                               BTW, I just learned today that there is a
>         FI-WARE
>                  smaller review
>                               coming up soon. Let's see if we already
>         have to present
>                               things there.
>                               So far they have not explicitly asked us.
>
>
>                               Best,
>
>                               Philipp
>
>                                   -Toni
>
>
>                                        From an XML3D POV things could
>         actually be
>                  quite
>                                       "easy". It should
>                                       be rather simple to directly
>         interface to
>                  the IoT
>                                       GEs of FI-WARE
>                                       through REST via a new Xflow
>         element. This
>                  would
>                                       then make the data
>                                       available through <data> elements.
>         Then you
>                  can use
>                                       all the features
>                                       of Xflow to manipulate the scene
>         based on
>                  the data.
>                                       For example, we
>                                       are discussing building a set of
>                  visualization nodes
>                                       that implement
>                                       common visualization metaphors,
>         such as scatter
>                                       plots, animations,
>                                       you name it. A new member of the lab
>                  starting soon
>                                       wants to look
>                                       into this area.
>
>                                       For acting on objects we have
>         always used Web
>                                       services attached to
>                                       the XML3D objects via DOM events.
>         Eventually, I
>                                       believe we want a
>                                       higher level input handling and
>         processing
>                  framework
>                                       but no one
>                                       knows so far, how this should look
>         like (we
>                  have
>                                       some ideas but they
>                                       are not well baked, any inpu is
>         highly welcome
>                                       here). This might or
>                                       might not reuse some of the Xflow
>         mechanisms.
>
>                                       But how to implement RealVirtual
>         Interaction is
>                                       indeed an intersting
>                                       discussion. Getting us all on the
>         same page and
>                                       sharing ideas and
>                                       implementations is very helpful.
>         Doing this
>                  on the
>                                       same SW platform
>                                       (without the fork that we
>         currently have) would
>                                       facilitate a
>                                       powerful implementation even more.
>
>
>                                       Thanks
>
>                                           Philipp
>
>                                       Am 23.10.2013 08:02, schrieb Tomi
>         Sarni:
>
>                                           ->Philipp
>                                           /I did not get the idea why
>         POIs are
>                  similar to
>                                           ECA. At a very high
>                                           level I see it, but I am not
>         sure what
>                  it buys
>                                           us. Can someone sketch
>                                           that picture in some more detail?/
>
>                                           Well I suppose it becomes
>         relevant at
>                  point when
>                                           we are combining our
>                                           GEs together. If the model can be
>                  applied in
>                                           level of scene then
>                                           down to
>                                           POI in a scene and further down in
>                  sensor level,
>                                           things can be
>                                           more easily visualized. Not
>         just in
>                  terms of
>                                           painting 3D models but in
>                                           terms of handling big data as
>         well, more
>                                           specifically handling
>                                           relationships/inheritance. It also
>                  makes it easier
>                                           to design a RESTful API as we
>         have a common
>                                           structure which to follow
>                                           and also provides more
>         opportunities
>                  for 3rd
>                                           party developers to make
>                                           use of the data for their own
>         purposes.
>
>                                           For instance
>
>                                           ->Toni
>
>                                            From point of sensors, the
>                  entity-component becomes
>                                           device-sensors/actuators. A
>         device may
>                  have an
>                                           unique identifier and IP
>                                           by which to access it, but it
>         may also
>                  contain
>                                           several actuators and
>                                           sensors
>                                           that are components of that
>           device entity.
>                                           Sensors/actuators
>                                           themselves
>                                           are not aware to whom they are
>                  interesting to.
>                                           One client may use the
>                                           sensor information differently
>         to other
>                  client.
>                                           Sensor/actuator service
>                                           allows any other service to
>         query using
>                                           request/response method either
>                                           by geo-coordinates
>         (circle,square or
>                  complex
>                                           shape queries) or perhaps
>                                           through type+maxresults and
>         service
>                  will return
>                                           entities and their
>                                           components
>                                           from which the reqester can
>         form logical
>                                           groups(array of entity uuids)
>                                           and query more detailed
>         information
>                  based on
>                                           that logical group.
>
>                                           I guess there needs to be similar
>                  thinking done
>                                           on POI level. I guess
>                                           POI does not know which scene it
>                  belongs to. It
>                                           is up to scene
>                                           server to
>                                           form a logical group of POIs (e.g.
>                  restaurants
>                                           of oulu 3d city
>                                           model). Then
>                                           again the problem is that
>         scene needs
>                  to wait
>                                           for POI to query for
>                                           sensors and form its logical
>         groups
>                  before it
>                                           can pass information to
>                                           scene. This can lead to long wait
>                  times. But
>                                           this sequencing problem is
>                                           also something
>                                           that could be thought. Anyways
>         this is
>                  a common
>                                           problem with everything
>                                           in web at the moment in my
>         opinnion.
>                  Services
>                                           become intertwined.
>                                           When a
>                                           client loads a web page there
>         can be
>                  queries to
>                                           20 different services
>                                           for advertisment and other
>         stuff. Web page
>                                           handles it by painting stuff
>                                           to the client on receive
>         basis. I think
>                  this
>                                           could be applied in Scene
>                                           as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>                                           On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 8:00 AM,
>                  Philipp Slusallek
>                                           <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>
>                                           <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>__df__ki.de <http://dfki.de>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>>
>                                           <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>>__d__f__ki.de <http://df__ki.de>
>         <http://dfki.de>
>
>                                           <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>__df__ki.de <http://dfki.de>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>>>
>                                           <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>>__d__f__ki.de <http://df__ki.de>
>         <http://dfki.de>
>
>
>                                           <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek@>__df__ki.de <http://dfki.de>
>                  <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at __dfki.de
>         <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>>>> wrote:
>
>                                               Hi,
>
>                                               First of all, its
>         certainly a good
>                  thing to
>                                           also meet locally. I was
>                                               just a bit confused
>         whether that
>                  meeting
>                                           somehow would involve us as
>                                               well. Summarizing the results
>                  briefly for
>                                           the others would
>                                               definitely be interesting.
>
>                                               I did not get the idea why
>         POIs are
>                  similar
>                                           to ECA. At a very high
>                                               level I see it, but I am
>         not sure
>                  what it
>                                           buys us. Can someone
>                                               sketch that picture in
>         some more
>                  detail?
>
>                                               BTW, what is the status
>         with the
>                  Rendering
>                                           discussion (Three.js vs.
>                                               xml3d.js)? I still have
>         the feeling
>                  that we
>                                           are doing parallel work
>                                               here that should probably
>         be avoided.
>
>                                               BTW, as part of our
>         shading work
>                  (which is
>                                           shaping up nicely) Felix
>                                               has been looking lately at
>         a way to
>                  describe
>                                           rendering stages
>                                               (passes) essentially
>         through Xflow.
>                  It is
>                                           still very experimental
>                                               but he is using it to
>         implement
>                  shadow maps
>                                           right now.
>
>                                               @Felix: Once this has
>         converged
>                  into a bit
>                                           more stable idea, it
>                                               would be good to post this
>         here to get
>                                           feedback. The way we
>                                               discussed it, this
>         approach could
>                  form a
>                                           nice basis for a modular
>                                               design of advanced
>         rasterization
>                  techniques
>                                           (reflection maps, adv.
>                                               face rendering, SSAO, lens
>         flare, tone
>                                           mapping, etc.), and (later)
>                                               maybe also describe global
>         illumination
>                                           settings (similar to our
>                                               work on LightingNetworks
>         some years
>                  ago).
>
>
>                                               Best,
>
>                                                        Philipp
>
>                                               Am 22.10.2013 23:03, schrieb
>         toni at playsign.net <mailto:toni at playsign.net>
>         <mailto:toni at playsign.net <mailto:toni at playsign.net>>
>                  <mailto:toni at playsign.net <mailto:toni at playsign.net>
>         <mailto:toni at playsign.net <mailto:toni at playsign.net>>>
>                                           <mailto:toni at playsign.net
>         <mailto:toni at playsign.net>
>                  <mailto:toni at playsign.net <mailto:toni at playsign.net>>
>                                           <mailto:toni at playsign.net
>         <mailto:toni at playsign.net>
>                  <mailto:toni at playsign.net <mailto:toni at playsign.net>>>>
>
>                                               <mailto:toni at playsign.net
>         <mailto:toni at playsign.net>
>                  <mailto:toni at playsign.net <mailto:toni at playsign.net>>
>                                           <mailto:toni at playsign.net
>         <mailto:toni at playsign.net>
>                  <mailto:toni at playsign.net <mailto:toni at playsign.net>>>>:
>
>                                                   Just a brief note: we
>         had some
>                                           interesting preliminary
>                                           discussion
>                                                   triggered by how the data
>                  schema that
>                                           Ari O. presented for
>                                           the POI
>                                                   system seemed at least
>         partly
>                  similar to
>                                           what the Real-Virtual
>                                                   interaction work had
>         resulted
>                  in too --
>                                           and in fact about
>                                           how the
>                                                   proposed POI schema
>         was basically a
>                                           version of the
>                                           entity-component
>                                                   model which we’ve
>         already been
>                  using for
>                                           scenes in realXtend
>                                           (it is
>                                                   inspired by / modeled
>         after it, Ari
>                                           told). So it can be much
>                                                   related to
>                                                   the Scene API work in the
>                                           Synchronization GE too. As the
>         action
>                                                   point we
>                                                   agreed that Ari will
>         organize a
>                  specific
>                                           work session on that.
>                                                   I was now thinking that it
>                  perhaps at
>                                           least partly leads
>                                           back to the
>                                                   question: how do we
>         define (and
>                                           implement) component types. I.e.
>                                                   what
>                                                   was mentioned in that
>                  entity-system post
>                                           a few weeks back (with
>                                                   links
>                                                   to reX IComponent
>         etc.). I mean: if
>                                           functionality such as
>                                           POIs and
>                                                   realworld interaction
>         make sense as
>                                           somehow resulting in
>                                           custom data
>                                                   component types, does
>         it mean
>                  that a key
>                                           part of the framework
>                                                   is a way
>                                                   for those systems to
>         declare
>                  their types
>                                           .. so that it
>                                                   integrates nicely
>                                                   for the whole we want?
>         I’m not
>                  sure, too
>                                           tired to think it
>                                                   through now,
>                                                   but anyhow just wanted to
>                  mention that
>                                           this was one topic that
>                                                   came up.
>                                                   I think Web Components
>         is again
>                                           something to check - as in XML
>                                                   terms reX
>                                                   Components are xml(3d)
>         elements
>                  .. just
>                                           ones that are usually in
>                                                   a group
>                                                   (according to the reX
>         entity
>                  <-> xml3d
>                                           group mapping). And Web
>                                                   Components are about
>         defining &
>                                           implementing new elements
>                                           (as Erno
>                                                   pointed out in a different
>                  discussion
>                                           about xml-html authoring
>                                                   in the
>                                                   session).
>                                                   BTW Thanks Kristian
>         for the great
>                                           comments in that entity system
>                                                   thread - was really
>         good to
>                  learn about
>                                           the alternative
>                                                   attribute access
>                                                   syntax and the
>         validation in
>                  XML3D(.js).
>                                                   ~Toni
>                                                   P.S. for (Christof &)
>         the DFKI
>                  folks:
>                                           I’m sure you
>                                           understand the
>                                                   rationale of these
>         Oulu meets
>                  -- idea is
>                                           ofc not to exclude you
>                                                   from the
>                                                   talks but just makes
>         sense for
>                  us to
>                                           meet live too as we are in
>                                                   the same
>                                                   city afterall etc --
>         naturally
>                  with the
>                                           DFKI team you also talk
>                                                   there
>                                                   locally. Perhaps is a
>         good idea
>                  that we
>                                           make notes so that can
>                                                   post e.g.
>                                                   here then (I’m not
>         volunteering
>                  though!
>                                           😜) . Also, the now
>                                           agreed
>                                                   bi-weekly setup on
>         Tuesdays luckily
>                                           works  so that we can then
>                                                   summarize
>                                                   fresh in the global Wed
>                  meetings and
>                                           continue the talks etc.
>                                                   *From:* Erno Kuusela
>                                                   *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎,
>         ‎October‎
>                  ‎22‎, ‎2013
>                                           ‎9‎:‎57‎ ‎AM
>                                                   *To:* Fiware-miwi
>
>
>                                                   Kari from CIE offered
>         to host
>                  it this
>                                           time, so see you there at
>                                                   13:00.
>
>                                                   Erno
>
>
>                  _______________________________________________________
>
>
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>                                               --
>
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------________------------------------__--__--__--__-------------
>
>
>                                               Deutsches
>         Forschungszentrum für
>                  Künstliche
>                                           Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH
>                                               Trippstadter Strasse 122,
>         D-67663
>                  Kaiserslautern
>
>                                               Geschäftsführung:
>                                                  Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c.
>         mult. Wolfgang
>                                           Wahlster (Vorsitzender)
>                                                  Dr. Walter Olthoff
>                                               Vorsitzender des
>         Aufsichtsrats:
>                                                  Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A.
>         Aukes
>
>                                               Sitz der Gesellschaft:
>                  Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
>                                               USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973,
>         Steuernummer:
>                                             19/673/0060/3
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------________------------------------__--__--__--__---------------
>
>
>
>
>
>                  _____________________________________________________
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>                                       --
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------______--------------------------__--__--__-------------
>                                       Deutsches Forschungszentrum für
>         Künstliche
>                                       Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH
>                                       Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663
>                  Kaiserslautern
>
>                                       Geschäftsführung:
>                                         Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult.
>         Wolfgang Wahlster
>                                       (Vorsitzender)
>                                         Dr. Walter Olthoff
>                                       Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
>                                         Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
>
>                                       Sitz der Gesellschaft:
>         Kaiserslautern (HRB
>                  2313)
>                                       USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973,
>         Steuernummer:
>                    19/673/0060/3
>
>
>         ------------------------------______--------------------------__--__--__---------------
>                                       <slusallek.vcf>
>
>
>
>
>
>                               --
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------______--------------------------__--__--__-------------
>                               Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche
>         Intelligenz
>                               (DFKI) GmbH
>                               Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663
>         Kaiserslautern
>
>                               Geschäftsführung:
>                                 Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster
>                  (Vorsitzender)
>                                 Dr. Walter Olthoff
>                               Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
>                                 Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
>
>                               Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB
>         2313)
>                               USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer:
>           19/673/0060/3
>
>
>         ------------------------------______--------------------------__--__--__---------------
>                               <slusallek.vcf>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                       --
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------______--------------------------__--__--__-------------
>                       Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz
>                  (DFKI) GmbH
>                       Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
>
>                       Geschäftsführung:
>                          Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster
>         (Vorsitzender)
>                          Dr. Walter Olthoff
>                       Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
>                          Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
>
>                       Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
>                       USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer:  19/673/0060/3
>
>
>         ------------------------------______--------------------------__--__--__---------------
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>              --
>
>
>         ------------------------------____----------------------------__--__-------------
>              Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz
>         (DFKI) GmbH
>              Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
>
>              Geschäftsführung:
>                 Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender)
>                 Dr. Walter Olthoff
>              Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
>                 Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
>
>              Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
>              USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer:  19/673/0060/3
>
>         ------------------------------____----------------------------__--__---------------
>
>
>
>
>     --
>
>     ------------------------------__------------------------------__-------------
>     Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH
>     Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
>
>     Geschäftsführung:
>        Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender)
>        Dr. Walter Olthoff
>     Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
>        Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
>
>     Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
>     USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer:  19/673/0060/3
>     ------------------------------__------------------------------__---------------
>
>


-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH
Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern

Geschäftsführung:
   Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender)
   Dr. Walter Olthoff
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats:
   Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes

Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer:  19/673/0060/3
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