Hi, Thanks for the feedback. I agree that it does make a lot of sense to try this out. The Oulu data set might be the perfect example for this. Otherwise we would also have data sets and real world apps and our SW platfrom from FI-Content that we could use (Stefan Lemme has all the details there). He is also the main POI author (but currently really busy finishing our many M6 deliverables in FI-C2 :-( ). Maybe a good starting point would be to convert the individual houses into separate XML3D files (e.g. stored in the XML3D-REPO from Kristian/UCL) and create a set of POIs that link them to their GIS location (maybe individual houses is to fine grained, so we might also use an entire block or so). The POI then could also refer to different LODs that we could choose from. Then we could try to place these houses on a properly aligned OSM map for verifying the approach. Later we may still use a 3D terrain data set and deal with advanced issues such as intersection lines for the building and such. Best, Philipp Am 18.09.2013 11:09, schrieb Sami Jylkkä: > I share your concern, even though it would be possible to store all kind > of data to XML3D, we need to make sure that only relevant data is stored > there. Currently it is hard for me to say if one of your options would > be complete solution. It might be also so that final solution is > actually combination of these 3 options. > However your proposal about using POI as GIS data storage for XML3D > might be good starting point. By using POI, XML3D models and actual GIS > data related to 3D object can be maintained and stored completely > separately. Server handles combination of GIS & XML3D data and serves > correctly converted scene to client for rendering. > > I have briefly read your POI suggestion and it seems that POI shape data > is exactly the data we need to properly align 3D model to the map. I > think that we need to try this in practise so that we see how linking > GIS data to xml3d works. Then it is also easier to comment if POI > suggestion is enough to fulfil our needs. > > Best regards, > Sami > > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Philipp Slusallek > <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>> wrote: > > Hi, > > I guess there are different answers, depending on what the goal is. The > way I see it, there are 3D objects that typically live in their own > Euklidian coordinate space (typically not an issue unless they are many > km wide), and there is a transformation that places them in SOME joint > coordinate space. > > The transformation is not a big deal unless you are covering really huge > distances (like earth/moon) but exactly those things do happen in > GIS-related apps. So this is where my idea of transformations in doubles > comes from. > > The other is the question of who places the 3D objects in that target > coordinate system and how do we get that data. I see three options: > > -- It happens at the server: XML3D gets the final transformations in > whatever the local coordinate frame is and dos not need to know. > > -- It is stored with the 3D object. Here the easiest option would be to > store a coordinate reference system (e.g. WCS84) as an additional > semantic attribute with the 3D object are somehow as part of a special > transformation (if we go that route then I would prefer the latter). > However, there likely is more GIS data associated with the object, so > the question is if that should also be stored with the object. This is > certainly possible (e.g. using the semantic annotations in RDF/a) but is > this the best option? > > -- It is stored separately in a POI or something similar. This keeps the > GIS data (there may be much more GIS data related to a POI, see above) > separate. The POI then has whatever CRS and simply refer to the geometry > via a URL, which is placed relative to the POI. > > At the end we have to decide. We can easily include whatever we want in > XML3D. My main concern is to decide what makes most sense where. From my > perspective, I like the last (POI) approach the best. It also allows us > to reuse the 3D model without carrying all the GIS data around with it. > > I have added Stefan Lemme in CC who is the main person behind our POI > suggestions that we have send around earlier. If you have not seen it > yet, please have a look and let us know what you think and if it > fulfills your needs. > > Best, > > Philipp > > > Am 16.09.2013 14:34, schrieb Sami Jylkkä: > > Hi Philipp and thank you for your reply. > > I included also Juha to this discussion, we are working together with > > the GIS implementation. We don't yet have MiWi working. > > > > Work is in early design phase and we are gathering basic information > > what should be met in final implementation. In this phase our > > understanding is that it would be beneficial if XML3D objects has > > georeference information with alignment information, so that objects > > could be placed in correct location and in right direction. xml3d > model > > each point could be specified as geolocation point, but this approach > > might be overkill. > > > > Perhaps easier way to proceed would be that in example xml3d model > which > > presents house, would contain geolocation information based on its > lower > > points(house foundation). Also alignment is important information. > With > > this information model should be possible to be placed correctly > in GIS. > > Do you think that at least this information could be included to xml3d > > model? > > > > We are also interested to include POI objects to GIS demo, so if you > > have ongoing development activities also in that area, we'd be > delighted > > to hear more about that. > > > > Best regards, > > Sami > > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Philipp Slusallek > > <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Sorry for the late response. > > > > Am 13.09.2013 10:14, schrieb Sami Jylkkä: > > > It would be really nice to get GIS code which you have done so > > that we'd > > > be able to get familiar with it. You have good looking demos! > > > > We are happy to provide what we can. Its something that we are > > interested in ourselves but where the student working on it > has left. > > > > I have also contacted Prof. Zipf from the University of > Heidelberg and > > we will have a call tomorrow. Maybe, he would like to > contribute a bit > > as well. We certainly share the same goals. Obviously, he has no > > funding, so I am not sure what he can do. > > > > > I would like to ask also your plans to add GeoSpatial > support to XML3D > > > or is the support already there? > > > > I am not sure what we need to add here. We see XML3D as a > "delivery > > format" and not so much as a storage format (for GIS or other > data). > > Thus, as long as we can map GIS data to something that we can > display, > > we should be fine. Associated data (such as a reference to the > > coordinate system used, can easily be embedded as semantic > references or > > such. > > > > We are also working on advanced POI specs, which should be > useful to > > place things in the world. > > > > What might make sense is to support high-resolution (at least > based on > > doubles) transformations between coordinate spaces, just so we > loose > > less accuracy over wide distances. > > > > Is there anything else that you are missing? I would love to > hear about > > them, so we can think about suitable extensions. > > > > > > Best, > > > > Philipp > > > > > Thanks, > > > Sami > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Philipp Slusallek > > > <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>> > > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> > > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>>> wrote: > > > > > > Great! Thanks, > > > > > > Philipp > > > > > > Am 12.09.2013 11:45, schrieb Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila: > > > > Hello Philipp and Jürgen, > > > > > > > > We would be glad to see your commitment to the GIS > topic and > > > compare it > > > > to the information and implementation we have at the > moment. > > > > > > > > Also, I'd also like to make a statement that since > > Cyberlightning is > > > > developing GIS at the moment, our resource Sami Jylkkä > would > > be the > > > > primary contact person to these discussions. Sami is added > > in this > > > email > > > > CC as well, and I have been requesting to add him to MiWi > > mailing list > > > > as well. Sami is the primary resource related to GIS > at our side > > > and can > > > > act as the primary contact point as needed. > > > > > > > > - Jarkko > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Philipp Slusallek > > > > <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> > > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>> > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> > > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>> > > > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> > > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>> > > > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> > > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de > <mailto:Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Jürgen, > > > > > > > > Could you please make our GIS code available for our > > partners > > > in the > > > > FI-WARE (MiWi project)? Also, maybe you could > share some > > of the > > > > SocialSensor visualizations with the team? > > > > > > > > This is pretty close to some ideas we were discussing > > also in > > > the MiWi > > > > project. Feel free to drop by for discussing the > details. > > > > > > > > @MiWi: I suggest that someone takes over the GIS > > > responsibility, at > > > > least as a contact point for Jürgen? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Philipp > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz > > (DFKI) GmbH > > > > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > > > > > > > Geschäftsführung: > > > > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster > (Vorsitzender) > > > > Dr. Walter Olthoff > > > > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > > > > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > > > > > > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > > > > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Fiware-miwi mailing list > > > > Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu> > > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu>> > > > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu> > > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu>>> > > > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu> > > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu>> > > > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu> > > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu > <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu>>>> > > > > https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-miwi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila > > > > VP, Technology > > > > Cyberlightning Ltd. > > > > > > > > mobile. +358 405245142 <tel:%2B358%20405245142> > <tel:%2B358%20405245142> > > <tel:%2B358%20405245142> > > > > email. jarkko at cyberlightning.com > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com> > > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com>> > > > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com> > > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com>>> > > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com> <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com>> > > > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com> > > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com > <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com>>>> > > > > > > > > Enrich Your Presentations! New CyberSlide 2.0 released on > > February > > > 27th. > > > > Get your free evaluation version and buy it now! > > www.cybersli.de <http://www.cybersli.de> <http://www.cybersli.de> > > > <http://www.cybersli.de> > > > > <http://www.cybersli.de/> > > > > > > > > www.cyberlightning.com <http://www.cyberlightning.com> > <http://www.cyberlightning.com> > > <http://www.cyberlightning.com> > > > <http://www.cyberlightning.com/> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz > (DFKI) GmbH > > > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > > > > > Geschäftsführung: > > > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > > > Dr. Walter Olthoff > > > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > > > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > > > > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > > > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > > > Geschäftsführung: > > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > > Dr. Walter Olthoff > > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > Geschäftsführung: > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > Dr. Walter Olthoff > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern Geschäftsführung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: slusallek.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 441 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://lists.fiware.org/private/fiware-miwi/attachments/20130918/a260d340/attachment.vcf>
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