ok - I'll plan tomorrow so that can give a shot, thanks for info. and yes missing such a 'standalone' implementation is correct and makes sense -- the implementation of the ECA biz in C++ tundra's TundraProtocolModule etc. is pretty tied to the rest of the system, rendering with Ogre etc. only kNet is separate but that's just the low level networking and not related to the scene-entities. that's something where the standalone sync impl in WebTundra's networking module helps a little now, gives a small simple client lib for generic use (for example the case of sim servers discussed related to SceneAPI) but only for Javascript & WebSockets. Erno has tested it with Node.js recently btw. But Kiara with support for perhaps all relevant langs later and transports etc. is indeed still good to check for next steps and is sure great it already works for reX like things in FiVES. ~Toni On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Philipp Slusallek <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> wrote: > Hi, > > Feel free to add to it based on the text you wrote. I pass the token to you. > I am not exactly sure when it is supposed to go to the commission -- but > this is very soon. > > Regarding the sync section. On the one hand you are right that realXtend had > a generic protocol embedded in it, but my understanding was that it was > pretty much tied to realXtend and not really available outside of it (even > though one could probably have extracted it with some effort). This is the > point I find important in the sense of offering a generic tool for > synchronization. > > With "pure", I meant "standalone" in the sense of the above. Wording should > be fixed. > > > Best, > > Philipp > > > Am 06.04.2014 09:34, schrieb Toni Alatalo: > >> I've also found it OK when looked previously. Had a couple of things >> that wanted to add then but was traveling and didn't have access to >> Word (actually never normally do unfortunately) so didn't have a way >> to work on them safely. Still seems fine and is good to go if there's >> a hurry - a couple of notes here anyhow in case there's a chance to >> work on it still: >> >> a simple story -- how fi-ware has advanced the state of the art from >> realXtend's perspective: >> >> - starting point: ECA model proposed as a standard for extensible >> virtual worlds a few years back (Alatalo 2011). with a c++ >> implementation that has since matured and is in commercial use >> >> - progress beyond state of art: ECA implemented over web sockets with >> integrated 3D-UI with WebGL -> Web / HTML5 implementation of the same >> proposed platform >> - improvements to the ECA model: >> * mapping between xml3d & reX ECA: allows much more human friendly >> declarative authoring than TXML. integrates nicely to Web when used >> inside HTML. >> * entity hierarchy (not flat like before fi-ware, proper parenting) >> (new in 3.3) >> * proper custom component support from Javascript (new in 3.3) >> * these last points also AFAIK enable complete representation of any >> xml, including html & xml3d in reX ECA -> the generic simple network >> protocol with AttributeChanged etc. messages works to sync those too >> >> In the current document I think a section based on that could be used >> to improve the "Web User Interface Server Core Technologies" - it >> doesn't really make sense to say: "Today, real-time synchronization of >> 3D scenes is limited to specialized applications such as SecondLife >> (secondlife.com) and games engines like Unreal and others. " when we >> already presented a *generic* protocol and platform already 3 years >> ago and have happily used it in business since. Basically what was >> missing before fi-ware was a web/html5 implementation of that. >> >> That 2011 article which introduced the model & platform is this BTW, >> perhaps good to add to refs: Toni Alatalo, "An Entity-Component Model >> for Extensible Virtual Worlds," IEEE Internet Computing, vol. 15, no. >> 5, pp. 30-37, Sept.-Oct. 2011, doi:10.1109/MIC.2011.82 >> http://www.computer.org/csdl/mags/ic/2011/05/mic2011050030-abs.html >> >> Here is a mistake (it's realxtend.org, not .com) and I'd consider the >> wording too: "FI-WARE technology is currently based on realXtend >> (realXtend.com) [Dahl 13]. Additionally, an more pure synchronization >> layer (FIVES) has been designed that is based on the FI-WARE Advanced >> Middleware [Byelozyorov 13]" >> >> I'm not sure if 'more pure' is a good choice of words there, >> especially as AFAIK the FiVES implementation is basically identical >> with the realXtend model and implementations. realXtend is also >> completely pure in several ways: the ECA model doesn't specify any >> vocabulary itself (like XML doesn't) but applications or plugins can >> define whatever components they want (like xml3d and realXtend's set >> of basic components do). The networking works automatically for any >> component. reX ECA is independent of the transport layer: in current >> Tundra impls the messaging is handled by the Kristalli / kNet library, >> but any other transport could be used without the application layer >> seeing any changes I think. >> >> I know and sure acknowledge that KIARA is much more ambitious and >> advanced in how it can do the serialisation and automatically choose >> suitable transports etc. but I'm not aware how something on the FiVES >> level would be 'more pure' nor what that'd mean. If it refers to >> generality with regards to application data types etc. it's AFAIK the >> same. >> >> A more informative description of the differences in purity and >> networking might be useful there. At least for me to understand what >> the doc is trying to say :) >> >> Final point: some of these things are already done and being >> delivered, at least glTF and other optimized transfer format support >> (glTF demo in WebTundra demos, CTM also in xml3d.js) & integration >> with the editor / Interface Designer and the basic 3D things - if this >> is to report how we're progressed we could change some of the future >> form 'wills' there to past tense: "FI-WARE technology is based on >> XML3D [Sons 10] and will in future extend the current state-of-the-art >> by (i) adding a much extended content pipeline for integrating 3D >> content, (ii) a 3D asset data base including versioning and different, >> Web-optimized 3D data formats (working with the glTF initiative at >> Khronos), (iii) improved resource management for adaptive, on-demand >> loading and unloading of scene content, (iv) improved developer tools >> for distributed and synchronized Web applications, and (v) >> significantly improving the access to hardware resources for >> computational expensive tasks like AR, animation, and others. The >> 3D-UI technologies will closely tie together with the Interface >> Designer technology that will provide all of the features mentioned >> above in an interactive context directly to users." >> >> Anyhow I think it's also fine already if must go forward. If there is >> still time and you find some of these would be good improvements I can >> give a shot at integrating them in some simple ways tomorrow (can get >> to a compu with ms word then if necessary). >> >> Cheers and thanks for work on the comprehensive doc! >> ~Toni >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Philipp Slusallek >> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Sorry for the dealy but I was extremely busy the last few weeks. >>> >>> Here is (what I consider) the final version of the SotA for WP13. I did a >>> final pass over the general text, adding some more references, and adding >>> an >>> extensive Executive Summary that gives and overview of the available >>> technology, puts it in perspective, and sketches how the individual >>> enabler >>> are related to each other.. >>> >>> It would be good if someone did a quick pass over it to spot any typos >>> and >>> such but otherwise it should be ready to go. >>> >>> Hope you like it :-), >>> >>> >>> Philipp >>> >>> Am 17.03.2014 17:14, schrieb Christof Marti: >>> >>>> Hi Philipp >>>> >>>> Can I delegate the finalization of the D.2.6.3 WP13 SoTA contribution to >>>> you? >>>> >>>> I am very busy going through OpenSpecs v3 and create the D.13.1.3 >>>> Deliverable >>>> and also checking all the Release 3 comments (Guides, UTP) and prepare >>>> feedback >>>> for Miguel, to get the release-review process going again. >>>> >>>> Important: In todays WPL/WPA call it was pointed out, that we also have >>>> to >>>> provide a management summary (~ 1 page), containing only the newest >>>> developments. >>>> (For the other chapters this are the changes since last release of the >>>> deliverable) >>>> (For us this could be a compilation from the last part of all the GEs >>>> sota) >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Christof >>>> >>>> Am 16.03.2014 um 10:48 schrieb Philipp Slusallek >>>> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I did go through the text and fixed quite a few missing references and >>>>> marked some others that are still missing (please can some of the >>>>> people >>>>> involved in those GEs fix them). >>>>> >>>>> In general, there is a lack of references to previous work in quite a >>>>> few of the GE descriptions. Please follow the model we have done in the >>>>> middleware section and add some more references to previous work and >>>>> then position your work in FI-WARE in relation to that. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Philipp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am 15.03.2014 08:13, schrieb Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> I read through the paper in my behalf, and the text seems to be pretty >>>>>> much collected from the text that has been formulated already earlier. >>>>>> I >>>>>> my opinion, it gives an overview of the state of the art and as such I >>>>>> would guess it works as a deliverable for this purpose. However, >>>>>> having >>>>>> said that, I may not know all exact requirements what this deliverable >>>>>> is expected to fulfill. >>>>>> >>>>>> I made minor changes here and there, mainly fixing misspellings and >>>>>> word >>>>>> ordering. The modified document is attached here, with track changes >>>>>> enabled. >>>>>> >>>>>> - jarkko >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Marti Christof (mach) <mach at zhaw.ch >>>>>> <mailto:mach at zhaw.ch>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Philipp, dear WP13 GE Owners >>>>>> >>>>>> Also due in M36 is an updated version (D.2.6.3) of the "State of >>>>>> the >>>>>> art analysis - emerging technologies" deliverable. The previous >>>>>> release can be found here: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://forge.fi-ware.org/docman/view.php/7/2667/D.2.6.2+State+of+the+Art+Analysis+-+Emerging+Technologies.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://forge.fi-ware.org/docman/view.php/7/2667/D.2.6.2+State+of+the+Art+Analysis+%E2%80%93+Emerging+Technologies.pdf> >>>>>> >>>>>> Idea for all existing WPs is to provide a management summary and >>>>>> do >>>>>> only required updates on the existing chapters. >>>>>> Because there is no Web User Interfaces chapter in the last >>>>>> deliverable I took the content from the FI-Core proposal and >>>>>> tried >>>>>> to put together a WP13 contribution for this deliverable. >>>>>> It was more work than expected, because the writing style in a >>>>>> proposal is a little bit different than for this deliverable. So >>>>>> I >>>>>> would like to ask Philipp (and the respective GE owner for their >>>>>> part) to review the attached document (in change tracking mode), >>>>>> add >>>>>> missing content and in particular also add missing entries in the >>>>>> "Reference" section. >>>>>> >>>>>> Deadline for delivering updates to the coordinator for review >>>>>> is/was >>>>>> today (March 14th). Because of this additional internal review >>>>>> roundtrip, this will not be feasible. >>>>>> If each GE owner can review its 20 to 30 lines and Philipp keeps >>>>>> am >>>>>> eye on the overarching context until Monday noon, the delay would >>>>>> be >>>>>> minimal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for your contributions. >>>>>> >>>>>> @Miguel, Juanjo: I do not want to release this without the OK of >>>>>> Philipp and the domain experts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards >>>>>> Christof >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> InIT Cloud Computing Lab - ICCLab >>>>>> Institut of Applied Information Technology - InIT >>>>>> Zurich University of Applied Sciences - ZHAW >>>>>> School of Engineering >>>>>> Phone: +41 58 934 70 63 <tel:%2B41%2058%20934%2070%2063> >>>>>> Skype: christof-marti >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Fiware-miwi mailing list >>>>>> Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>> <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu> >>>>>> https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-miwi >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila >>>>>> VP, Technology >>>>>> Cyberlightning Ltd. >>>>>> >>>>>> mobile. +358 405245142 >>>>>> email. jarkko at cyberlightning.com <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> Go to www.cybersli.de <http://www.cybersli.de/> and enrich your >>>>>> presentations! >>>>>> >>>>>> www.cyberlightning.com <http://www.cyberlightning.com/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>> >>>>> Geschäftsführung: >>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>> >>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> <D.2.6.3 State of the Art Analysis - Emerging Technologies - >>>>> WP13-1-phs.docx><slusallek.vcf> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>> >>> Geschäftsführung: >>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>> >>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fiware-miwi mailing list >>> Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.org >>> https://lists.fi-ware.org/listinfo/fiware-miwi >>> > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > Geschäftsführung: > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > Dr. Walter Olthoff > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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