I did some edits to the Sync section along the lines of the comments that posted yesterday, using MS Word 2010 with track changes on. Also added a ref that had gone missing to the refs list at the end (Dahl 13) Cheers, ~Toni On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Philipp Slusallek <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> wrote: > Hi, > > Great we agree here. > > BTW, Torsten has started to work on the KIARA implementation in JS and C# > (beyond the stubs that we had so far) and we will sync (sic!) this to the > initial C/C++ version from Dmitri we have now, so they can all talk to each > other efficiently. > > > Best, > > Philipp > > Am 06.04.2014 12:46, schrieb Toni Alatalo: > >> ok - I'll plan tomorrow so that can give a shot, thanks for info. >> >> and yes missing such a 'standalone' implementation is correct and >> makes sense -- the implementation of the ECA biz in C++ tundra's >> TundraProtocolModule etc. is pretty tied to the rest of the system, >> rendering with Ogre etc. only kNet is separate but that's just the low >> level networking and not related to the scene-entities. >> >> that's something where the standalone sync impl in WebTundra's >> networking module helps a little now, gives a small simple client lib >> for generic use (for example the case of sim servers discussed related >> to SceneAPI) but only for Javascript & WebSockets. Erno has tested it >> with Node.js recently btw. But Kiara with support for perhaps all >> relevant langs later and transports etc. is indeed still good to check >> for next steps and is sure great it already works for reX like things >> in FiVES. >> >> ~Toni >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Philipp Slusallek >> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Feel free to add to it based on the text you wrote. I pass the token to >>> you. >>> I am not exactly sure when it is supposed to go to the commission -- but >>> this is very soon. >>> >>> Regarding the sync section. On the one hand you are right that realXtend >>> had >>> a generic protocol embedded in it, but my understanding was that it was >>> pretty much tied to realXtend and not really available outside of it >>> (even >>> though one could probably have extracted it with some effort). This is >>> the >>> point I find important in the sense of offering a generic tool for >>> synchronization. >>> >>> With "pure", I meant "standalone" in the sense of the above. Wording >>> should >>> be fixed. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Philipp >>> >>> >>> Am 06.04.2014 09:34, schrieb Toni Alatalo: >>> >>>> I've also found it OK when looked previously. Had a couple of things >>>> that wanted to add then but was traveling and didn't have access to >>>> Word (actually never normally do unfortunately) so didn't have a way >>>> to work on them safely. Still seems fine and is good to go if there's >>>> a hurry - a couple of notes here anyhow in case there's a chance to >>>> work on it still: >>>> >>>> a simple story -- how fi-ware has advanced the state of the art from >>>> realXtend's perspective: >>>> >>>> - starting point: ECA model proposed as a standard for extensible >>>> virtual worlds a few years back (Alatalo 2011). with a c++ >>>> implementation that has since matured and is in commercial use >>>> >>>> - progress beyond state of art: ECA implemented over web sockets with >>>> integrated 3D-UI with WebGL -> Web / HTML5 implementation of the same >>>> proposed platform >>>> - improvements to the ECA model: >>>> * mapping between xml3d & reX ECA: allows much more human friendly >>>> declarative authoring than TXML. integrates nicely to Web when used >>>> inside HTML. >>>> * entity hierarchy (not flat like before fi-ware, proper parenting) >>>> (new in 3.3) >>>> * proper custom component support from Javascript (new in 3.3) >>>> * these last points also AFAIK enable complete representation of any >>>> xml, including html & xml3d in reX ECA -> the generic simple network >>>> protocol with AttributeChanged etc. messages works to sync those too >>>> >>>> In the current document I think a section based on that could be used >>>> to improve the "Web User Interface Server Core Technologies" - it >>>> doesn't really make sense to say: "Today, real-time synchronization of >>>> 3D scenes is limited to specialized applications such as SecondLife >>>> (secondlife.com) and games engines like Unreal and others. " when we >>>> already presented a *generic* protocol and platform already 3 years >>>> ago and have happily used it in business since. Basically what was >>>> missing before fi-ware was a web/html5 implementation of that. >>>> >>>> That 2011 article which introduced the model & platform is this BTW, >>>> perhaps good to add to refs: Toni Alatalo, "An Entity-Component Model >>>> for Extensible Virtual Worlds," IEEE Internet Computing, vol. 15, no. >>>> 5, pp. 30-37, Sept.-Oct. 2011, doi:10.1109/MIC.2011.82 >>>> http://www.computer.org/csdl/mags/ic/2011/05/mic2011050030-abs.html >>>> >>>> Here is a mistake (it's realxtend.org, not .com) and I'd consider the >>>> wording too: "FI-WARE technology is currently based on realXtend >>>> (realXtend.com) [Dahl 13]. Additionally, an more pure synchronization >>>> layer (FIVES) has been designed that is based on the FI-WARE Advanced >>>> Middleware [Byelozyorov 13]" >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if 'more pure' is a good choice of words there, >>>> especially as AFAIK the FiVES implementation is basically identical >>>> with the realXtend model and implementations. realXtend is also >>>> completely pure in several ways: the ECA model doesn't specify any >>>> vocabulary itself (like XML doesn't) but applications or plugins can >>>> define whatever components they want (like xml3d and realXtend's set >>>> of basic components do). The networking works automatically for any >>>> component. reX ECA is independent of the transport layer: in current >>>> Tundra impls the messaging is handled by the Kristalli / kNet library, >>>> but any other transport could be used without the application layer >>>> seeing any changes I think. >>>> >>>> I know and sure acknowledge that KIARA is much more ambitious and >>>> advanced in how it can do the serialisation and automatically choose >>>> suitable transports etc. but I'm not aware how something on the FiVES >>>> level would be 'more pure' nor what that'd mean. If it refers to >>>> generality with regards to application data types etc. it's AFAIK the >>>> same. >>>> >>>> A more informative description of the differences in purity and >>>> networking might be useful there. At least for me to understand what >>>> the doc is trying to say :) >>>> >>>> Final point: some of these things are already done and being >>>> delivered, at least glTF and other optimized transfer format support >>>> (glTF demo in WebTundra demos, CTM also in xml3d.js) & integration >>>> with the editor / Interface Designer and the basic 3D things - if this >>>> is to report how we're progressed we could change some of the future >>>> form 'wills' there to past tense: "FI-WARE technology is based on >>>> XML3D [Sons 10] and will in future extend the current state-of-the-art >>>> by (i) adding a much extended content pipeline for integrating 3D >>>> content, (ii) a 3D asset data base including versioning and different, >>>> Web-optimized 3D data formats (working with the glTF initiative at >>>> Khronos), (iii) improved resource management for adaptive, on-demand >>>> loading and unloading of scene content, (iv) improved developer tools >>>> for distributed and synchronized Web applications, and (v) >>>> significantly improving the access to hardware resources for >>>> computational expensive tasks like AR, animation, and others. The >>>> 3D-UI technologies will closely tie together with the Interface >>>> Designer technology that will provide all of the features mentioned >>>> above in an interactive context directly to users." >>>> >>>> Anyhow I think it's also fine already if must go forward. If there is >>>> still time and you find some of these would be good improvements I can >>>> give a shot at integrating them in some simple ways tomorrow (can get >>>> to a compu with ms word then if necessary). >>>> >>>> Cheers and thanks for work on the comprehensive doc! >>>> ~Toni >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Philipp Slusallek >>>> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Sorry for the dealy but I was extremely busy the last few weeks. >>>>> >>>>> Here is (what I consider) the final version of the SotA for WP13. I did >>>>> a >>>>> final pass over the general text, adding some more references, and >>>>> adding >>>>> an >>>>> extensive Executive Summary that gives and overview of the available >>>>> technology, puts it in perspective, and sketches how the individual >>>>> enabler >>>>> are related to each other.. >>>>> >>>>> It would be good if someone did a quick pass over it to spot any typos >>>>> and >>>>> such but otherwise it should be ready to go. >>>>> >>>>> Hope you like it :-), >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Philipp >>>>> >>>>> Am 17.03.2014 17:14, schrieb Christof Marti: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Philipp >>>>>> >>>>>> Can I delegate the finalization of the D.2.6.3 WP13 SoTA contribution >>>>>> to >>>>>> you? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am very busy going through OpenSpecs v3 and create the D.13.1.3 >>>>>> Deliverable >>>>>> and also checking all the Release 3 comments (Guides, UTP) and prepare >>>>>> feedback >>>>>> for Miguel, to get the release-review process going again. >>>>>> >>>>>> Important: In todays WPL/WPA call it was pointed out, that we also >>>>>> have >>>>>> to >>>>>> provide a management summary (~ 1 page), containing only the newest >>>>>> developments. >>>>>> (For the other chapters this are the changes since last release of the >>>>>> deliverable) >>>>>> (For us this could be a compilation from the last part of all the GEs >>>>>> sota) >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards >>>>>> Christof >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 16.03.2014 um 10:48 schrieb Philipp Slusallek >>>>>> <Philipp.Slusallek at dfki.de>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I did go through the text and fixed quite a few missing references >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> marked some others that are still missing (please can some of the >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> involved in those GEs fix them). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In general, there is a lack of references to previous work in quite a >>>>>>> few of the GE descriptions. Please follow the model we have done in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> middleware section and add some more references to previous work and >>>>>>> then position your work in FI-WARE in relation to that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Philipp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 15.03.2014 08:13, schrieb Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I read through the paper in my behalf, and the text seems to be >>>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>>> much collected from the text that has been formulated already >>>>>>>> earlier. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> my opinion, it gives an overview of the state of the art and as such >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> would guess it works as a deliverable for this purpose. However, >>>>>>>> having >>>>>>>> said that, I may not know all exact requirements what this >>>>>>>> deliverable >>>>>>>> is expected to fulfill. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I made minor changes here and there, mainly fixing misspellings and >>>>>>>> word >>>>>>>> ordering. The modified document is attached here, with track changes >>>>>>>> enabled. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - jarkko >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Marti Christof (mach) >>>>>>>> <mach at zhaw.ch >>>>>>>> <mailto:mach at zhaw.ch>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Philipp, dear WP13 GE Owners >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also due in M36 is an updated version (D.2.6.3) of the "State >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> art analysis - emerging technologies" deliverable. The >>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>> release can be found here: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://forge.fi-ware.org/docman/view.php/7/2667/D.2.6.2+State+of+the+Art+Analysis+-+Emerging+Technologies.pdf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://forge.fi-ware.org/docman/view.php/7/2667/D.2.6.2+State+of+the+Art+Analysis+%E2%80%93+Emerging+Technologies.pdf> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Idea for all existing WPs is to provide a management summary >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> only required updates on the existing chapters. >>>>>>>> Because there is no Web User Interfaces chapter in the last >>>>>>>> deliverable I took the content from the FI-Core proposal and >>>>>>>> tried >>>>>>>> to put together a WP13 contribution for this deliverable. >>>>>>>> It was more work than expected, because the writing style in a >>>>>>>> proposal is a little bit different than for this deliverable. >>>>>>>> So >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> would like to ask Philipp (and the respective GE owner for >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> part) to review the attached document (in change tracking >>>>>>>> mode), >>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>> missing content and in particular also add missing entries in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> "Reference" section. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Deadline for delivering updates to the coordinator for review >>>>>>>> is/was >>>>>>>> today (March 14th). Because of this additional internal review >>>>>>>> roundtrip, this will not be feasible. >>>>>>>> If each GE owner can review its 20 to 30 lines and Philipp >>>>>>>> keeps >>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>> eye on the overarching context until Monday noon, the delay >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> minimal. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for your contributions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Miguel, Juanjo: I do not want to release this without the OK >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> Philipp and the domain experts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards >>>>>>>> Christof >>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> InIT Cloud Computing Lab - ICCLab >>>>>>>> Institut of Applied Information Technology - InIT >>>>>>>> Zurich University of Applied Sciences - ZHAW >>>>>>>> School of Engineering >>>>>>>> Phone: +41 58 934 70 63 <tel:%2B41%2058%20934%2070%2063> >>>>>>>> Skype: christof-marti >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Fiware-miwi mailing list >>>>>>>> Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu >>>>>>>> <mailto:Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.eu> >>>>>>>> https://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-miwi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila >>>>>>>> VP, Technology >>>>>>>> Cyberlightning Ltd. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mobile. +358 405245142 >>>>>>>> email. jarkko at cyberlightning.com <mailto:jarkko at cyberlightning.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Go to www.cybersli.de <http://www.cybersli.de/> and enrich your >>>>>>>> presentations! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> www.cyberlightning.com <http://www.cyberlightning.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Geschäftsführung: >>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> <D.2.6.3 State of the Art Analysis - Emerging Technologies - >>>>>>> WP13-1-phs.docx><slusallek.vcf> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>>>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>>>> >>>>> Geschäftsführung: >>>>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>>>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>>>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>>>> >>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>>>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fiware-miwi mailing list >>>>> Fiware-miwi at lists.fi-ware.org >>>>> https://lists.fi-ware.org/listinfo/fiware-miwi >>>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >>> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >>> >>> Geschäftsführung: >>> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >>> Dr. Walter Olthoff >>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >>> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >>> >>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >>> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > Geschäftsführung: > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > Dr. Walter Olthoff > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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