Hi, Thank you very much, Peter. This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is touching on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise this conversation to the attention of the AB. In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in terms of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in general terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what is in the vision. Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain processing would not come and we only found out later that there will be something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". How about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete info about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one only works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to someone who wants to apply your GE. In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was not adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But that is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been so much more helpful. So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: codoan is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to the GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in the GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that people do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be in a GE. Best, Philipp Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: > a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the functionality for the GE. > > An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the development process for FI-WARE GEs. > > Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. > > Kind regards > Peter > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware-streaming- >> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek >> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 >> To: Sofia Tsekeridou >> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >> >> Hi, >> >> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: >>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking >>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also >>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, >>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the >>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus >>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be >>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. >>> What do you think? >> >> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to >> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of what >> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs >> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based >> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). >> >> >> Best, >> >> Philipp >> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> Sofia >>> >>> *************************************************** >>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou >>> Assistant Professor >>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area >>> Athens Information Technology - AIT >>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. >>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE >>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 >>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr >>> sofia at ieee.org >>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html >>> *************************************************** >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- >> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi- >> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] >>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 >>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>> >>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to >>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 >>> From: "Amon, Peter" <p.amon at siemens.com> >>> To: Mischler Denis <denis.mischler at technicolor.com>, "ab at fi-ppp.eu" >>> <ab at fi-ppp.eu>, "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" >>> <fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu> >>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>> Message-ID: >>> >> <EDDE8D0FEF8B6B4AA50AC1AC8BB744DE03A409DE3A at DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.n >> et> >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Dear Denis, all, >>> >>> thanks for the new version of the document! >>> >>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving >> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background >> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the codoan >> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object >> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt >> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. >>> >>> My proposal: >>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background >> estimation" >>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, >> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, >> animal, suitcase, etc.)" >>> >>> Thanks for considering the proposal. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- >> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis >>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 >>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates >>> >>> Dear all, >>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) >>> >>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) >>> >>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". >> (only a vocabulary correction) >>> >>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the Storage >> Enabler) and completed if "yes". >>> Regards >>> Denis Mischler >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: <http://lists.fi-ware.eu/private/fiware- >> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>> >>> >>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 >>> ********************************************** >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fiware-streaming mailing list >>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern >> >> Geschäftsführung: >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) >> Dr. Walter Olthoff >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern Geschäftsführung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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