Dear Philipp, sorry that I created even more confusion than resolved it. This was not my intent. Therefore, let me describe the properties of the "codoan" asset directly: codoan analyzes H.264/AVC video streams in the compressed domain. (This is also the reason, why you did not find anyting about the pixel-domain in the context of codoan). The current features are: - Change/event detection (i.e., dectecting in a video stream if something happens in the scene) - Moving object detection and segmentation (i.e., extraction of shape or bounding box for a moving object in a video stream) - Foreground/background segmentation (very similar to moving object segmentation, since detected objects are regarded as foreground) For the next release, we plan to implement: - Moving object tracking (i.e., matching of segmented objects from frame to frame in a video stream) I thought that the features of this asset were also well explained in the two FI-PPP Software Architects weeks (e.g., what can be done in the compressed domain and where are the limitations), but maybe I was wrong. I will also check, where the desription of our asset on the wiki can be improved. I will come back to you on that. (I am afraid there is no notification functionality in the wiki.) I believe a major source of confusion is also, that the Multimedia Analysis GE includes two assets: 1) the "codoan" asset (Siemens): an analysis tool for H.264 video streams, 2) the "White Diamond" asset (Telecom Italia): an Multimedia Analysis Broker, that orchestrates different analysis components. White Diamond is not planned for Release 1 of FI-WARE, therefore the description might not be as concrete as for the other asset. Maybe a way to resolve the confusion is to better separate the features of the two assets. I will discuss this inside FI-WARE. On my comment for the "Streaming" GE: My only intent was to avoid duplication of work. I fully agree with you that analysis tools usually address a specific usage area. codoan was origionally designed for the surveillance domain (e.g., as addressed by SAFECITY). If you believe that the functionality offered by codoan (i.e., as realized as low-complexity compressed-domain analysis) is not sufficient for your purposes in the content domain (e.g., if you want to do image analysis, not video analysis, or if you need analysis of uncompressed material), please keep the requirement in the Open Call. However, here we should be more precise what we exactly demand. On your comment on the "UC backlog": I agree, the search interface is not optimal. I also agree that accepted UC tickets should be reflected in the wiki. This has been done for codoan, i.e., the "object tracking" request from SAFECITY has become an Epic in the wiki already some time ago. (Maybe I should not have mentioned this resource in my mail.) Non-accepted UC tickets are not reflected. I guess this a topic for the AB. I encourage you to discuss this in the AB. If there are "permission denied" links: I hope such things can be resolved easily. I guess this also is something for the AB, if there is a general problem. I am sorry, if I upset you with my mail. I did not mean to. Kind regards Peter However, White Diamond is not planned for the first release therefore > -----Original Message----- > From: Philipp Slusallek [mailto:slusallek at dfki.de] > Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2012 07:43 > To: Amon, Peter > Cc: Sofia Tsekeridou; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu; ab at fi-ppp.eu > Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > > Hi, > > Thank you very much, Peter. > > This brief discussion about finding out more what is in a GE is touching > on fundamental issues of collaboration between FI-WARE, the AB, and the > UC projects -- for a topic that is of high importance to many UCs and > which has been discussed extensively in the AB. So allow me to raise > this conversation to the attention of the AB. > > > In your answer to my question trying to find out what is coming in terms > of pixel-level media analysis you simply refer me to the Wiki in general > terms. I happen to know about the information sources in the FI-PPP. As > we all know they are not perfect. The Product Vision is extremely high > level and promises the moon, but as we found out in Madrid, we seem to > be getting much less. Trying to find out what this is, is important as > other work in the UCs will be based on what we will get and not on what > is in the vision. > > Let me tell you that I did read all the documentation on multimedia > analysis in quite some detail a while ago (it's an area that is > important to our work). After our discussion in Madrid, my question has > been more than fair. There you essentially said that pixel-domain > processing would not come and we only found out later that there will be > something but that there is no information on this yet on the Wiki. > > Since there is no way I can get notified (as far as I know) when Wiki > specifications change for GEs that are relevant to me, I expect a > reasonable answer to my question and not a "you find it on the Web". How > about simply sending us a URL to the relevant sections, instead of > listing all the high-level info we all know perfectly well. As you see, > I am getting a bit upset here -- and I apologize for this. > > Back to my questions: You have criticized the definition of our new GEs > in the sense that they cover things that will be coming in the existing > GEs. This would be fair -- IF there is enough info about what is coming > so that we can even know about it and plan accordingly. We have very > concrete use cases that we must implement and so need very concrete info > about what will be offered. Simply saying "there will be moving object > segmentation" is like saying nothing in the context of multimedia > analysis. As we all know, there are tons of algorithms and each one only > works for some specific scenarios. Without knowing in more detail what > type of algorithms is being used and how this can be tweaked to work > with various types of objects and environments, it is mostly useless to > someone who wants to apply your GE. > > In this concrete case: In response to your email, this morning I did > search through all of the parts of the FI-WARE Wiki relevant to > multimedia analysis in search for more details about pixel-level > analysis. I found NOTHING! (that I had not seen before and which was not > adequate). OK, maybe I missed it -- which is even not unlikely. But that > is exactly why sending me a concrete link as an answer would have been > so much more helpful. > > So may I politely ask again for more detailed information about what > will be coming in terms of pixel-level analysis? > > As a side note: It often has helped to look at the documentation of the > base assets to guess what will be supported. In this context, I "love" > the description of the "baseline assets" for multimedia analysis: codoan > is described as a proprietary tool and it refers to the vision for more > details (which are obviously not there) and White Diamond has two links > to more details for both of which I still get a "permission denied" > error. You are certainly not making it easy to find out details. > > Also, you mention that there is info in the tickets about changes to the > GE. May I politely ask that accepted requests that modify what is in the > GE specs get integrated into the description of the GE with links back > to their discussion in the tickets (we are on the Web after all). I > would even strongly suggest to link to refused requests such that people > do not ask for these things again. You cannot reasonably expect people > to search the ticket data base (with its sub-optimal search interface) > and wade through tickets to find out about things that may or will be in > a GE. > > > Best, > > Philipp > > > Am 19.07.2012 22:19, schrieb Amon, Peter: > > a good source for such a description is the Epic and Feature overview > for this GE, to be found under "Materializing the FI-WARE vision" on the > FI-WARE Wiki. Since recently also "Release 0" Features were added (like > for all FI-WARE GEs), this should give a complete picture of the > functionality for the GE. > > > > An additional source is the UC backlog, especially those tickets labeled > "Accepted for Inclusion in FI-WARE Backlog", since these indicate future > planning for this GE. Here, requirements from UC projects (e.g., provided > by Sofia in the case of MMA) were discussed and included into the > development process for FI-WARE GEs. > > > > Finally, "FI-WARE Product Vision" and "FI-WARE Architecture and Open > Specifications" (both on the FI-WARE Wiki) give a more general overview > for FI-WARE GEs. However, in the case of the Multimedia Analysis GE it > includes properties of both, the "codoan" asset by Siemens and the "White > Diamond" asset from Telecom Italia. > > > > Kind regards > > Peter > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > streaming- > >> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Philipp Slusallek > >> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 13:04 > >> To: Sofia Tsekeridou > >> Cc: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Am 19.07.2012 12:51, schrieb Sofia Tsekeridou: > >>> With respect to the moving object segmentation and tracking > >>> capabilities of the Multimedia Analysis GE, is it possible to also > >>> extract information about the movement? E.g. direction of movement, > >>> speed, or generally movement statistics along with e.g. shape of the > >>> moving object, etc.? Is it also possible to identify rigid versus > >>> non-rigid moving objects (e.g. cars versus persons)? These may be > >>> better evaluated in the pixel domain than in the compressed domain. > >>> What do you think? > >> > >> Asked differently, is there a more detailed description of what to > >> expect in this GE (as far as I remember there was no description of > what > >> is to come). This is relevant in the context that two of the new GEs > >> will need high-performance, real-time, highly flexible, pixel-based > >> analysis even on mobile platforms (at least for Augmented Reality). > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Philipp > >> > >>> Many thanks, > >>> > >>> Sofia > >>> > >>> *************************************************** > >>> Dr. Sofia Tsekeridou > >>> Assistant Professor > >>> Head of Multimedia, Knowledge and Web Technologies Research Area > >>> Athens Information Technology - AIT > >>> 0.8 km Markopoulou Ave. > >>> 19002 Peania, Athens, GREECE > >>> Tel.: +302106682804, Fax: +302106682703 > >>> E-mail: sots at ait.gr > >>> sofia at ieee.org > >>> Web: http://www.ait.gr/ait_web_site/faculty/sots/tsekeridou.html > >>> *************************************************** > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [fiware-streaming- > >> bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] on behalf of fiware-streaming- > request at lists.fi- > >> ware.eu [fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu] > >>> Sent: 19 July 2012 13:00 > >>> To: fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> Subject: Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >>> > >>> Send Fiware-streaming mailing list submissions to > >>> fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> > >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>> fiware-streaming-request at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> > >>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>> fiware-streaming-owner at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> > >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>> than "Re: Contents of Fiware-streaming digest..." > >>> > >>> > >>> Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. Re: FI-WARE streaming updates (Amon, Peter) > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Message: 1 > >>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:15:44 +0200 > >>> From: "Amon, Peter" <p.amon at siemens.com> > >>> To: Mischler Denis <denis.mischler at technicolor.com>, "ab at fi-ppp.eu" > >>> <ab at fi-ppp.eu>, "fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu" > >>> <fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu> > >>> Subject: Re: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > >>> Message-ID: > >>> > >> > <EDDE8D0FEF8B6B4AA50AC1AC8BB744DE03A409DE3A at DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.n > >> et> > >>> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>> > >>> Dear Denis, all, > >>> > >>> thanks for the new version of the document! > >>> > >>> Just one comment on FIWARE.EPIC.STEAMING.GENERIC_PROCESSING: "Moving > >> object segmentation" (and to some extent also "Foreground/background > >> estimation" and "Moving object identification") is supported by the > codoan > >> asset realizing part of the Multimedia Analysis GE. "Moving object > >> tracking" is planned for future releases of this GE. Therefore, I doubt > >> that we should ask for these functionalities in an Open Call. > >>> > >>> My proposal: > >>> - Remove "Moving object segmentation" and "Foreground/background > >> estimation" > >>> - Remove "Moving object identification (person, car, animal, suitcase, > >> etc.) and tracking" and add instead "Object identification (person, car, > >> animal, suitcase, etc.)" > >>> > >>> Thanks for considering the proposal. > >>> > >>> Kind regards > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: fiware-streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu [mailto:fiware- > >> streaming-bounces at lists.fi-ware.eu] On Behalf Of Mischler Denis > >>> Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 11:31 > >>> To: ab at fi-ppp.eu; fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> Subject: [Fiware-streaming] FI-WARE streaming updates > >>> > >>> Dear all, > >>> here a few updates in the streaming document (track changes mode) > >>> > >>> - Added requirements about multi view (FI-CONTENT Telecom Italia) > >>> > >>> - Charging and Payment : used the word "Service Data logging". > >> (only a vocabulary correction) > >>> > >>> - Added a storage EPIC to be decided about (here or in the > Storage > >> Enabler) and completed if "yes". > >>> Regards > >>> Denis Mischler > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: <http://lists.fi-ware.eu/private/fiware- > >> streaming/attachments/20120718/dfdb0349/attachment-0001.html> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Fiware-streaming mailing list > >>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>> > >>> > >>> End of Fiware-streaming Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 > >>> ********************************************** > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Fiware-streaming mailing list > >>> Fiware-streaming at lists.fi-ware.eu > >>> http://lists.fi-ware.eu/listinfo/fiware-streaming > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >> Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > >> Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > >> > >> Geschäftsführung: > >> Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > >> Dr. Walter Olthoff > >> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > >> Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > >> > >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > >> USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > >> - > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Künstliche Intelligenz (DFKI) GmbH > Trippstadter Strasse 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern > > Geschäftsführung: > Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) > Dr. Walter Olthoff > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: > Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313) > USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973, Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -
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