Hi Juanjo, All,
clearly my grades in maths were not well deserved :) or I need a pair or glasses xD
Thanks for correcting me!
Federico
Dr. Federico Michele Facca
Head of Martel Lab
Martel Innovate
Dorfstrasse 73 - 3073 Gümligen (Switzerland)
0041 78 807 58 38
0041 31 994 25 25
martel-innovate.com <http://martel-innovate.com/>
> On 29 Oct 2016, at 01:32, Federico M. Facca <federico.facca at martel-innovate.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Juanjo,
> I am probably just very tired and mixed up very wrongly the numbers. Losing some zero around :) let me sleep on this !
>
> Thanks,
> Federico
>
> Fede's mobile edition
> Dr. Federico Michele Facca
> Head of Martel Lab
>
> Martel Innovate
> Dorfstrasse 73 - 3073 Gümligen <x-apple-data-detectors://1/0> (Switzerland)
> 0041 78 807 58 38 <tel:0041%2078%20807%2058%2038>
> 0041 31 994 25 25 <tel:0041%2031%20994%2025%2025>
> martel-innovate.com <http://martel-innovate.com/>
>
> Il giorno 29 ott 2016, alle ore 01:22, Juanjo Hierro <juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com <mailto:juanjose.hierro at telefonica.com>> ha scritto:
>
>> Hi Federico,
>>
>> I believe your numbers are totally wrong.
>> For a startup that has revenues of 2M€, the fee would be 0,00025 * 2.000.000 = 500 ==> 2.500€ (since the minimum would apply)
>>
>> For a SME that has revenues of 10 M€, the fee would be 0,00025 * 10.000.000 = 2.500€
>>
>> Continuing with your example, the startup would have max 15 employees and average profit of 100 K€ ... so this would mean they would have to contribute 2,5 % of their profit.
>> In the case of the SME, it would have max 250 employees and average profit of 250 K€ ... so this would mean they would have to contribute 1% of their profit.
>> It seems like you were calculating the fees wrongly, since you were arguing that both the startup and SME had to pay 50 K€ ... why? This would be true for joining the OpenStack Foundation but not the FIWARE Foundation.
>> Indeed we made an effort to be more friendly with SMEs and startups than OpenStack is, where minimum contribution for Gold members is 50 K€ without distinguising the kind of company. In the two examples you provide, companies would have to pay 50 K€ of fee if they were joining OpenStack, when in FIWARE they would have to pay only 2,5 K€ ...
>>
>> Or do you mean that the minimum contribution should be lower than 2.500 €, which was already 20 times less than in OpenStack?
>>
>> I'm not sure if I understand your point.
>> I also don't understand your point when you say that startups have a special treatment in OpenStack ... may you clarify? Looking at:
>>
>> https://www.openstack.org/join/ <https://www.openstack.org/join/>
>> I don't see they have any special treatment and they would have to pay 50 K€ to be Gold Members as explained above.
>> Indeed, looking at the fee code of OpenStack, I feel like it would be rather difficult for startups like those you describe to be Gold Members. They only thing you would be able to be (and still a bit hard) would be "sponsor", in which case they pay 10 K€/year with no right to participate in governance nor being recognized as OpenStack Foundation members ... but that means paying even 4 times more than as a Gold member in the FIWARE Foundation ...
>> May you clarify?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> -- Juanjo
>>
>> On 28/10/16 15:24, Federico Michele Facca wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>> given that no one else shared his concerns, and given that I feel - for all the energy I invested in it in the past years - part of this community, and that I
>>> want this community to be successful. I am gonna expose my concerns in a public way, hoping that they are taken constructively as they want to be.
>>>
>>> First of all, I think the important aspect of Open Source communities are contributors: no coders, no community.
>>> The Open Source foundations are surely a fundamental aspect to enable the community work (because with their services they support and enable them),
>>> but as matter of fact they are also a "service providers" to their paying members.
>>>
>>> So, I think that fees should have been accompanied with a clear offer definition of what members get in term of "services" for fees
>>> (except being a voting member for the boards, which may not be the most appealing aspect).
>>> Services/advantages should be the actual arguments to join. I am quite sure this may have been presented in other venues,
>>> but not documentation afaik was attached in this discussion (deep apologises if I missed it).
>>>
>>> Secondly, regarding the fees definition, I notice that the model is largely inspired to the OpenStack one, except for the fact that
>>> - Platinum members in FIWARE pay 1/2 of Platinum members in OpenStack;
>>> - the cap for Gold members is 1/4 in FIWARE than in OpenStack.
>>>
>>> Still, the fee model, by not reducing the % proportion on turn over (e.g.1/4 of 0.025%), reduces the capacity of commitment for the small SMEs and startups,
>>> while making it easier for large SMEs. (notice that OpenStack has a special memberships for startups).
>>>
>>> For example, a small SMEs in UK with max 15 employees has an average 2Mio revenue and 100k profits. Such small SME will pay 50k.
>>> A medium SME in UK, with max 250 employees has an average revenue of 10Mio and 250k profits. Such medium SME will pay 50k.
>>>
>>> Clearly for the small SME will be much harder to afford the participation compared to the medium SME.
>>>
>>> Which is perfectly fine if the FIWARE foundation feels that small SMEs and startups are not an important element for the future of the foundation.
>>> I personally think that, considering the current FIWARE emphasis on startups and SMEs and the role they had so far in the success stories, this
>>> should not be the case.
>>>
>>> But maybe, as Stefano said, we are the only one concerned. In case, I apologise for this long email.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Federico
>>>
>>> Dr. Federico Michele Facca
>>> Head of Martel Lab
>>>
>>> Martel Innovate
>>> Dorfstrasse 73 - 3073 Gümligen (Switzerland)
>>> 0041 78 807 58 38
>>> 0041 31 994 25 25
>>> martel-innovate.com <http://martel-innovate.com/>
>>>
>>>> On 28 Oct 2016, at 08:18, stefano de panfilis <stefano.depanfilis at eng.it <mailto:stefano.depanfilis at eng.it>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> dear all,
>>>>
>>>> apologises for this long silent phase, but the work to register the ff (fiware foundation) took most of our energies, the good news is that most likely today we had the formal registration at the charlottenburg court here in berlin.
>>>>
>>>> consequently to that we have to finalise quickly the gap which includes a revised version of the doa.
>>>> changes as i wrote you are in agreement with the esr, but in some cases are quite intense. following all of that i suggest to have a confcall (if you disagree on the proposal of the new budget) on this coming wednesday at 14:30.
>>>>
>>>> the new budget sharing will come in a moment.
>>>>
>>>> there is still a point i'd like to share with you.
>>>> the ec, in the case of the validation of the fiware foundation by their services takes too long, is asking to engineering (only becouse i'm the acting coordinator) to take over the coordination role having the ff as its subcontractor. since anyway such validation will terminate along this year, the agreement is that we have a very quick and prompt amendment within 2016 putting everything as in its normal state, i.e. the ff as coordinator.
>>>>
>>>> if this is the situation then the commencement date can be this 1st november as the contract signature migth be within november. if the ec accepts to delay till the ff is validated by their services, then most likely the commencemnt date is 1st december.
>>>>
>>>> both case the ec would like to use the rule that the commencement date is the first day of the month where the contract signature occurs. they said to me yesterday, if you wish to start this 1st november, as you know, you start at your own risk.
>>>>
>>>> btw, this morning i'm going to have another, final (?), call with the ec to take the final decision.
>>>>
>>>> in addition, we at ff take this project extremely seriously as it to be the cornerstone of the ff boost and start-up phase and the founders of the ff as well being all of them platinum members of the ff (from the attached fee code you see that is comparable with the funding those partners will receive by the ec in fi-next).
>>>>
>>>> to the attached email i received only one answer (martel consulting) which is a positive sign if i have to take it in the silence=agreement model, but it is that?
>>>>
>>>> please find attached for your convenience the fee code for joining the ff which we see as a (strong)requisite to be in the fi-next project. this point have been shared with the ec.
>>>>
>>>> stay tuned as in a couple of hours you'll get the new budget and the request for the missing bits of documents.
>>>>
>>>> ciao,
>>>> stefano
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2016-09-23 13:14 GMT+02:00 stefano de panfilis < <mailto:stefano.depanfilis at eng.it>stefano.depanfilis at eng.it <mailto:stefano.depanfilis at eng.it>>:
>>>> dear all,
>>>>
>>>> as you migth know on last 13 september we have signed the fiware foundation bylaws in front of the notary for submission to the german authority for registration.
>>>>
>>>> till today we did not yet received the ok, but we are rather confident things will be finalised within this week or early next week at most.
>>>>
>>>> in this context now the fiware foundation can properly take over the coordination of the fi-next project starting from its contractual finalisation.
>>>>
>>>> due to my role of chief operation officers at the fiware foundation i'm now in charge of such a task with the help of the team at telefonica.
>>>>
>>>> with this email i'd like to make you all aware about the evolution of the work we are already doing.
>>>>
>>>> 1. the ec is completely aware of all the steps we are making and are quite helpfull in the all contractual fianlisation matters
>>>>
>>>> 2. following the esr we all received we are reviewing the proposal text in order to have it best fitting as the project doa ("description of action", new name for "description of work" - dow).
>>>>
>>>> 3. friday last week we (ulrich, juanjo and myself) had a conversation with the ec. they highligthed that:
>>>> 3.1 the doa must follow the recommendations in the esr
>>>> 3.2 it is essential to provide more resources to the fiware os community building and evangelisation
>>>> 3.3 the technical activities themselves should be effectively focussed on few aspects and in particular to strengthen the iot ready initiative we have already launched in fiware. this last point is not in the esr, but was strongly mentioned during the meeting.
>>>>
>>>> we are now elaborating a new budget share with as much as possible minimal impact. of course we will distribute it to you all before it to be submitted to the ec. anyway it is clear that in order to strengthen the project, and the position of all beneficiaries in the project, it is highly recommended, if not mandatory, that each partner in this consortium shows a real committment to fiware and its long term sustainability. the only way to do so is that each partner in the consortium joins the fiware foundation.
>>>>
>>>> to this extent to this email you'll find attached the fiware foundation bylaws in the version we signed and submitted to the german authorities.
>>>>
>>>> the fees, still under finalisation by the fiware foundation board of directors, are as follows:
>>>> - platinum members 200.000 eur per year plus 2 fte
>>>> - gold members 0.025 of the annual turnover
>>>> - associate members flat rate to be fixed (this category however applies only for academia and research institutes)
>>>> - individual members free of charge (this category applies only physical persons, this is anyhow mandatory for the persons in the consortium, as well outside fi-next, which will actively contribute with assets, e.g. code, documentation, courses, tests, etc).
>>>>
>>>> the plan is finalise everything by next week.
>>>>
>>>> in a next email i'll come with the exact duties for each of all with respect to the contractual documentation such as declaration of honour and the like.
>>>>
>>>> in the meanwhile, please let me know if you have serious objections in joining as member the fiware foundation.
>>>>
>>>> ciao,
>>>> stefano
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stefano De Panfilis
>>>> Chief Innovation Officer
>>>> Engineering Ingegneria Informatica S.p.A.
>>>> via Riccardo Morandi 32
>>>> 00148 Roma
>>>> Italy
>>>>
>>>> tel (direct): +39-06-8759-4253 <tel:%2B39-06-8759-4253>
>>>> tel (secr.): +39-068307-4513 <tel:%2B39-068307-4513>
>>>> fax: +39-068307-4200 <tel:%2B39-068307-4200>
>>>> cell: +39-335-7542-567
>>>> skype: depa01
>>>> twitter: @depa01
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stefano De Panfilis
>>>> Chief Innovation Officer
>>>> Engineering Ingegneria Informatica S.p.A.
>>>> via Riccardo Morandi 32
>>>> 00148 Roma
>>>> Italy
>>>>
>>>> tel (direct): +39-06-8759-4253
>>>> tel (secr.): +39-068307-4513
>>>> fax: +39-068307-4200
>>>> cell: +39-335-7542-567
>>>> skype: depa01
>>>> twitter: @depa01
>>>>
>>>> <20161024_FIWARE Foundation_FeeCode.pptx>_______________________________________________
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>>>> https://lists.fiware.org/listinfo/fiware-sustainability-proposal <https://lists.fiware.org/listinfo/fiware-sustainability-proposal>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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